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    #1

    Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

    For my new computer build, I chose win7 x64 as the OS. I'm for the most part happy with it except for one thing. I'm still using a CRT screen, a Samsung Syncmaster 1200NF, and the %&*#!? OS, or possibly the Nvidia driver, have been unable to find out which, will not allow more than 60Hz screen refresh when running DirectX games full screen. I have nearly googled myself silly trying to find a solution. I distinctly remember this was a problem when XP was just released. Eventually solved by using Refreshlock or Multires. These do not work with Win7 however.
    Less than optimal refresh in Windows can be overcome with an EDID override monitor INF, but this problem is driving me nuts. Has apparently been a problem ever since Vista, and as I understand still needs a solution. I'm not yet prepared to ditch my CRT for a flatscreen monitor. I firmly believe a good CRT is superior for gaming.
    Has any of you seen, or know something I've missed?
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

    Um, did you check the nVidia control panel itself? Isn't there a refresh rate override there?
    "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

    -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

      I have an nvidia card and in the nvidia program, it allows anywhere from 60 to 85 hertz on mine. I use a 6200 FX series card and a 17" CRT. I would say that it is either that you need to go though the nvidia program or that your monitor does not support over 60 hertz

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        #4
        Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

        It's unusual for a CRT not to support over 60Hz. All the ones I've come across go up to at least 85Hz.
        I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

        No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

        Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

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          #5
          Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

          1. This supports 85Hz at 1600x1200 or max resolution at 75Hz but that usually make impage dimmer and hard to see.

          2. 6200FX is very old graphics card. Replace it with more memory (128MB to 256MB even 512MB) in order to support higher Hz at 1600x1200.

          3. 1200NF is getting old, what's the reasons to keep using it? Space and power usage is bigger issue with this than current LCDs.

          Cheers, Wizard

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

            Originally posted by Wizard
            2. 6200FX is very old graphics card. Replace it with more memory (128MB to 256MB even 512MB) in order to support higher Hz at 1600x1200.
            I don't see why video memory or age should be an issue with this. My old Geforce2 MX 32MB ran my CRT at 1600x1200 85Hz.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

              Originally posted by Wizard
              2. 6200FX is very old graphics card. Replace it with more memory (128MB to 256MB even 512MB) in order to support higher Hz at 1600x1200.
              huh??? my 6200 is an 8x 256 MB DDR2 video card.. i dont think putting in a newer card or a card with more memory will increase the hertz.. it already supports up to 85 as per my previous post.

              almost forgot to add.. my monitor is from around 1998 or 1999 too.. so it is not very new..

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                could it be related to DDC being enabled?
                i remember ATI drivers had that issue in 2k/XP but no idea about Win7+NVidia.
                the max supported refresh rate at any given resolution (on VGA output) depends on the RAMDAC clock rate which usually is 400MHz, and that's more than enough bandwidth for the above rates.
                "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H.L. Mencken

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                  #9
                  Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                  I do not have this issue with Win7 and my Dell 21" Trinitron.

                  1600x1200 at 85Hz and Im happy.

                  I still love the CRT for color accuracy and black levels. The sharpness of LCD is a big plus though and color wise, my Bravia TV isnt far off the mark.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                    Originally posted by Wizard
                    2. 6200FX is very old graphics card. Replace it with more memory (128MB to 256MB even 512MB) in order to support higher Hz at 1600x1200.
                    This is incorrect. Except for a few very old video cards with single digit RAM* amounts the speed of the DAC is what matters, not RAM. Pretty much anything with 16 MB or more (and quite a few with less) will support decent refresh rates at 1600x1200. My ATI 9250 with 128 MB is older than a 6200FX and I ran it at 85 Hz at 2048x1536.

                    * There are some very old cards where adding RAM would also effectively make the memory bus to the DAC wider and thus allow it to support higher refresh rates.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                      i think this is microfuck up to there old tricks trying to boost hardware sales, this problem is not coming from the nvidia driver or a lack of edid.

                      a lack of edid will force a low res, not a low freq.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                        Thank you for your comments.
                        Originally posted by mockingbird
                        Um, did you check the nVidia control panel itself? Isn't there a refresh rate override there?
                        Of course I have. At first, I couldn't get more than 85Hz, even though my screen is capable of 100Hz in all resolutions up to 1152x864 and 85Hz up to 1600x1200. I'm talking about the Windows desktop here. By modifying a new monitor INF to override the EDID information I solved that problem.
                        The problem is when running DirectX games full screen. 60Hz no matter what. Gives me a migraine.
                        Originally posted by kaniki
                        I would say that it is either that you need to go though the nvidia program or that your monitor does not support over 60 hertz
                        See above.
                        Originally posted by Wizard
                        3. 1200NF is getting old, what's the reasons to keep using it? Space and power usage is bigger issue with this than current LCDs.
                        Because CRT screens are much more versatile. They look pretty regardless of resolution, whereas a TFT screen don't. They have a built-in native resolution. Everything else looks like crap.
                        Originally posted by kikkoman
                        could it be related to DDC being enabled?
                        i remember ATI drivers had that issue in 2k/XP but no idea about Win7+NVidia.
                        the max supported refresh rate at any given resolution (on VGA output) depends on the RAMDAC clock rate which usually is 400MHz, and that's more than enough bandwidth for the above rates.
                        See my first comment. Overcame that with a monitor EDID override INF. The refresh rate in the Windows desktop isn't the issue. DirectX games full screen refresh rate limited to 60Hz is.
                        Originally posted by stj
                        i think this is microfuck up to there old tricks trying to boost hardware sales, this problem is not coming from the nvidia driver or a lack of edid.
                        I theorize that it never crossed their mind that some people would still use CRT screens. Less resources to allocate for testing before releasing it.
                        Hopefully someone will come up with a working fix. The exact same problem in XP was overcome with refreshlock. I will not activate my copy before. Period.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                          oh they know people use crt's,
                          they know that no lcd will touch a top-end crt and cad designers use crt's

                          they hate cad users though,
                          cad users forced them to keep open-gl compatability by threatening to move to mac or Linux if open-gl was dropped for direct-x only.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                            Originally posted by stj
                            cad users forced them to keep open-gl compatability by threatening to move to mac or Linux if open-gl was dropped for direct-x only.
                            I figured Microsoft would drop OpenGL eventually, but if CAD users are what kept it alive then they're my heroes.
                            I never did much 3D programming but I prefer OpenGL. Direct3D is just so much convoluted object-oriented crap.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                              Originally posted by Sudum Gumudu
                              The problem is when running DirectX games full screen. 60Hz no matter what. Gives me a migraine.
                              I wonder if this is a bug with the game(s), not the OS/DirectX. The game should be able to detect all supported modes but some might just assume you want 60Hz nowadays.

                              Try a manual override in dxdiag. I used that several years ago when I was on a CRT. My Hercules GF2MX card had a screwy off-spec refresh rate so manual override was the only way to produce the intended result. I had to put 80Hz in there to get 85Hz out.

                              I just checked and the option is still there on DX9.0c, but I don't know about DX11 or whatever you have installed.
                              I found the option under the "More Help" tab.

                              Comment

                                #16
                                Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                                Originally posted by gdement
                                Try a manual override in dxdiag. I used that several years ago when I was on a CRT. My Hercules GF2MX card had a screwy off-spec refresh rate so manual override was the only way to produce the intended result. I had to put 80Hz in there to get 85Hz out.
                                Thought of that. Win7 uses DX11. No such option there. Even tried manually with regedit putting in the ForceRefreshRate value in HKLM/Software/Microsoft/DirectDraw that the old 9.0c override function put there. Not working.

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                                  You should try posting at the nVidia forums, someone there could give you a better answer.
                                  "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                  -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    Re: Win7 sucks as gaming platform with CRT screen?

                                    I recently have made some discoveries:

                                    1. The EDID override monitor driver .ini file was the key after all. Without me noticing, somehow it was replaced by the Generic non-PnP monitor driver. That would also allow optimal refresh in the Windows environment, that's why I didn't notice the change. All games however would run at 60Hz no matter what.

                                    2. Some games, including Neverwinter Nights 2, the one I chose to test Win7 game CRT screen handling with, defaults to 60Hz unless you manually edit an entry in the games .ini file, even after I changed the driver back. Quite undocumented.

                                    I've tested a handful of titles now. They seem to breakdown into three categories:

                                    Titles that have a built-in choice of refresh rate, such as HALO 2. No problem here.

                                    Titles that require a manual edit of an .ini file such as Neverwinter Nights 2. No problem here either, once I figured it out.

                                    What seems to be the vast majority of titles. No built-in refresh choice. They will assume the desktop's refresh rate as long as the game's resolution is the same as the desktop's. If not, they will run at 75Hz. As long as the desktop and game resolution is the same, totally transparent, otherwise somewhat kludgy, but it works.

                                    Further testing with more tweaking of the monitor driver will perhaps yield even better results.

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