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    MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

    I didn't see this one here so adding it to the list. A socket motherboard around 5 years old. I cannot see any ID on the caps but they are a red / brown colour which resemble some of the pics in the hall of shame and marked as KZG.

    Currently I've about 5 of them bulging their little eye out. One to the left of the sim slot, two to the left of the CPU slot (closest to the cpu), two south of the cpu slot and all 2200uf 6.3V. The others all appear ok.

    On thing when looking at new caps and their lifetime rating is that I notice a lot are around 3000 hours. This doesn't seem a lot - I leave my computer running most of the time. In 24/7 terms that's only 4 months. Am I missing something here?

    #2
    Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

    3000 hours is the endurance lifetime. ie. the expected lifetime IF they are run at 105*C, with their maximum ratd ripple and voltage. the lifteime doubles for every 10*C below the maximum temperature.

    Replace ALL Chemi-con KZG caps on the motherboard, since they are bad caps and often fail with no visible signs. These should be fine to replace them.
    I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

    No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

    Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

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    Comment


      #3
      Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

      Originally posted by c_hegge View Post
      3000 hours is the endurance lifetime. ie. the expected lifetime IF they are run at 105*C, .....
      Thanks for that explanation, I thought it was a bit short.

      Originally posted by c_hegge View Post
      Replace ALL Chemi-con KZG caps on the motherboard, since they are bad caps and often fail with no visible signs. These should be fine to replace them.
      I guess that's pretty much 90%. There are some small green caps which I can't ID, apart from that, they are all red/ brown ones.

      Thanks for the adivice. I'm not looking forward to this but it has to be done

      Comment


        #4
        Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

        These caps you can't ID.
        What are the numbers/letters on them?
        Do they have a logo that looks like a shield?
        Mann-Made Global Warming.
        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

        -
        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

        - Dr Seuss
        -
        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
        -

        Comment


          #5
          Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

          Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
          These caps you can't ID.
          What are the numbers/letters on them?
          Do they have a logo that looks like a shield?
          Unfortunately I can only see one side of the cap which simply shows M 105c, There are some numbers on the top though.

          Some bad pics taken just now, best I can do at the moment whilst it's running and poking a full size slr into the case.

          This green cap is on the right of the memory slots. There's one other which is situated in between the agp and first pci slot. Any numbers writing on this is hard up against the pci slot.

          As with the red / brown ones I don't see any manufacturer mark on any of them. I've assumed KGZ only because they look so similar to the ones in the hall of shame.


          2nd pic just shows the redish brown 2200uf cap on the left of the memory slots.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by Louiscar; 04-05-2011, 07:26 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

            wow that kgz looks completly aired out

            last you knew did this board still boot up? not sure you should try powering it on till you get those larger kgzs replaced
            Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
            ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

            Comment


              #7
              Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

              what's with everyone calling them KGZ lately..? it's KZG

              Comment


                #8
                Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                Originally posted by scenic View Post
                what's with everyone calling them kgz lately..? It's kzg
                OH SHiT! - DYSLEXIA IS CONTAGIOUS!
                .
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                  Originally posted by Louiscar View Post
                  Unfortunately I can only see one side of the cap which simply shows M 105c, There are some numbers on the top though.

                  Some bad pics taken just now, best I can do at the moment whilst it's running and poking a full size slr into the case.

                  This green cap is on the right of the memory slots. There's one other which is situated in between the agp and first pci slot. Any numbers writing on this is hard up against the pci slot.

                  As with the red / brown ones I don't see any manufacturer mark on any of them. I've assumed KGZ only because they look so similar to the ones in the hall of shame.


                  2nd pic just shows the redish brown 2200uf cap on the left of the memory slots.
                  Top numbers just date usually.
                  Green cap looks okay anyway.
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                    Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
                    wow that kgz looks completly aired out

                    last you knew did this board still boot up? not sure you should try powering it on till you get those larger kgzs replaced
                    It's in use right now, I'm writing this on it. I am worried about it of course but at the moment I've not a lot in the way of an alternative at the moment. Using just one GB memory it's so far stable but that can change fast of course.

                    Originally posted by Scenic View Post
                    what's with everyone calling them KGZ lately..? it's KZG
                    Simple transposition - does it matter that much?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                      Originally posted by Louiscar View Post
                      Simple transposition - does it matter that much?
                      Only if you care about not confusing newbies.
                      Most of the 'regulars' here do.
                      .
                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                      -
                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                      - Dr Seuss
                      -
                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                      -

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                        Originally posted by Louiscar View Post
                        It's in use right now, I'm writing this on it. I am worried about it of course but at the moment I've not a lot in the way of an alternative at the moment. Using just one GB memory it's so far stable but that can change fast of course.
                        Using a board with vented caps can lead to all sorts of additional damage including completely blown chipsets and fire.
                        .
                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                        -
                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                        - Dr Seuss
                        -
                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                        -

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                          Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                          Top numbers just date usually.
                          Green cap looks okay anyway.
                          Yeah the other one looks ok. In fact lots of the other KZGs *look* ok but then unless I have them checked should I trust them to be within tolerance?

                          Frankly, I'm kind of thinking if I'm going to have to do thie myself I might have a better chance of a bootup if I change only the bad ones. The more I do the more chance I've got of screwing up. My soldering skills aren't bad per se but I am nervous about applying too much heat and damaging the tracks or near components.

                          It's the critical soldering I'm not that experienced at and one tv repairer I contacted was worried himself about doing it when I asked, saying the most difficult thing can be getting the old ones out.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                            Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                            Only if you care about not confusing newbies.
                            Point taken.

                            Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                            Using a board with vented caps can lead to all sorts of additional damage including completely blown chipsets and fire.
                            .
                            I know I'm taking a chance but I have to use the machine or build a new one. I can't afford to do that right now so trusting to luck and getting on the case asap is what I'm doing.

                            I will order the caps from here and hope they don't take too long to arrive. In the meantime mb permitting I'm going to have a bit of a backup session and get ready for the possiblity of never reviving this after my abusive soldering.

                            Life if full of risks. :-)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                              Mobo's are thick. That's about the only thing that takes getting used to.
                              -
                              You will do more damage using too little heat than too much.
                              -
                              Not enough heat means you'll have the iron on the pad too long [waiting for the heat to get all the way through the board to melt the solder in the hole] which may cause the pad to separate from the board.
                              -
                              You want lots of heat to minimize the -time- the heat is applied.

                              Most people go with a 50-60 watt iron and a small chisel tip.
                              Last edited by PCBONEZ; 04-05-2011, 08:56 AM.
                              Mann-Made Global Warming.
                              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                              -
                              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                              - Dr Seuss
                              -
                              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                              -

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                                sorry double post - delete
                                Last edited by Louiscar; 04-05-2011, 09:21 AM. Reason: double post - delete

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                                  Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                                  Mobo's are thick. That's about the only thing that takes getting used to.
                                  -
                                  You will do more damage using too little heat than too much.
                                  -
                                  Not enough heat means you'll have the iron on the pad too long
                                  Ok. Yes I should have said 'worried about overheating'. I've understood a lower heat iron can result in overheating. Normally I've found my little 25w to be ok for most stuff, it tends to melt fast, however, do you think I should not even risk that?

                                  If I were to try it would I be safe in playing the 3 second rule, ie if it doesn't melt in that time, just stop and don't try again?

                                  If it means anything I have an 'ANTEX' iron with a 3mm chisel tip.

                                  This one in fact:

                                  http://www.maplin.co.uk/25w-solderin...c=so&u=strat15
                                  Last edited by Louiscar; 04-05-2011, 09:22 AM.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                                    A 25 watt would just be an exercise in frustration.

                                    There are a few members [that solder often] that do okay with 40 watt irons [and when I started doing mobos that's what I used too] but just going from 40 watt to 50 watt is like an order of magnitude easier. At least for me it was.

                                    If this is a one time thing you could go with a hong-kong-fly-apart el'cheapo from ebay or something but you may have to file the tip to get it small enough and that means you'll be cleaning and re-tinning it for almost every joint. [They won't stay clean with the base metal exposed.]

                                    If it's something you might do often there are several stations that work well.
                                    I like Hakko 926 or 936 but there are other good ones.
                                    - There are a couple fairly recent treads on the topic that should have everything you wanna know.

                                    .
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                                      Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                                      A 25 watt would just be an exercise in frustration.

                                      There are a few members [that solder often] that do okay with 40 watt irons [and when I started doing mobos that's what I used too] but just going from 40 watt to 50 watt is like an order of magnitude easier. At least for me it was.

                                      If this is a one time thing you could go with a hong-kong-fly-apart el'cheapo from ebay or something but you may have to file the tip to get it small enough and that means you'll be cleaning and re-tinning it for almost every joint. [They won't stay clean with the base metal exposed.]

                                      .
                                      Thanks for the information. If I buy the same make (Antex) from Maplin they get really expensive for the 50w ones. I see they have a temp controlled 50w station which is about 2/3 of the price of the Antex on its own and they are doing an offer at the moment that halves the price. I may go with that although it's got a needle tip so I'll need to buy some extra tips.

                                      I think though that you've convinced me not to even attempt this with a 25w iron. I could try (in the safe way I mentioned above) just to see but given your info I think it may not be wise.

                                      Do you think this would be worth getting - might be better than the HK cheapo?

                                      http://www.maplin.co.uk/50w-solder-station-35016

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: MSI K2N2 Delta 2 LSR

                                        These may be out of your price range, but in case you want a point of view...:

                                        I have the 60w Maplin digital LCD soldering station, think it cost me £60/70 2 years ago.
                                        It works OK. I've had to replace the iron because I destroyed the last one. Irons are about £10. The - (temp down) button is faulty it's not the actual button since I swapped it with the Celsius/Fahrenheit button. If you sit twiddling it for a few minutes, it starts working.
                                        I struggled when I was doing an iMac G5 board, but most other motherboards are a piece of cake.

                                        RS Components do an own brand 80w station for about £100, wouldn't recommend them, my 2nd one died under the same pretenses as the first - stopped heating. They both didn't last more than a few hours. Still got to RMA the second.

                                        Where in the UK are you?

                                        Comment

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