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**golemmaster** · 08-29-2009, 10:51 AM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

I agree. You can't be everything to everybody all the time.

I don't have a great deal of OSX experience. But I understand the appeal. Both for technical and average-joe persons.

I have been a PC tech (that's a nomenclature beef for another thread) for over a decade. The problem with Windows XP 64bit was hardware and software designers weren't given time to write and publish drivers for existing and new hardware. XP64 came out and had lots of troubles for lack of support. Now it works very good. I run XP64 at home.
Vista had the same problems... poor drivers and app support. That and other things pretty much killed it. Those things are pretty much fixed and is actually bearable. I still don't want to run it though. I stick with BSD, Linux, openSolaris, XP. I digress.

Apple hardware is well designed (except for the occasional bad cap problems) and tightly controlled. This pretty much guarantees compatibility and capability. The same for OSX. Dropping support for old hardware has to be done to keep things optimized for max performance and min footprint (memory and HD usage). While all that extra work demands a higher price, it's worth it.
I realize I'm preaching to the choir.

this is not addressed to KeriJane or anyone in particular
OKOKOK... My beef is people saying PC when the really mean Windows.
"PC" does NOT equal Windows. PCs have hardware that can run many other OSs. blah blah blah bitch bitch bitch...

**weirdlookinguy** · 08-29-2009, 12:01 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

I like OS X and everything, but I don't like how often they upgrade and you're left behind in the dust. For example, one of my clients has an old G4 Mac Mini running 10.3. They bought one of the newer iPods, which refuses to work with anything other than the latest version of iTunes. OK no problem, we go to download it and... it won't install, it requires 10.4 or later.

That, to me, is Steve Jobs fucking the consumer with the long dick of planned obsolescence. Why is it that XP can easily run the newest iTunes, but 10.3/10.2/etc. can't? XP is older than 10.3. A lot older.

And then let's not even get into the cost. If, in 2001, you had dropped $250 for an XP license... you'd still be running a modern OS that will run pretty much anything today in 2009, EIGHT years later. If you'd gone the Mac route, you would have had to drop $75-125 every year and a half or so, when Steve & Co. decided to make a few minor improvements, slap the name of a random cat on the box, and called it an upgrade.

**golemmaster** · 08-29-2009, 12:11 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

I agree there too.....
that is kinda messed up....

**zandrax** · 08-29-2009, 02:09 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

It's more than iTunes, Weird.
I remember when latest Mac OS could run on 5+ old hardware (e.g. 1998 Mac OS 8.1 on 1992-93 Quadras, 2005 OS X 10.4 on 1999 G3 Macs: just add some ram and go): long term support was something granted, something that justified the catch sentence "Macs last longer than PCs". Ditching 3 years old, TOTL gear like G5 iMacs and Mac Pros doesn't really mean long term support to me.
Even agreeing on limited backward compatibility for the sake of better performance on modern hardware, early Intel Macs can't run Snow Leopard because they have 32 bit Core cpus (owners as out of luck as G4's ones) and 2nd gen Intel Macs can't run the 64 bit kernel due to 32 bit EFI (hope Apple releases a new EFI meanwhile): basically Macs older than 2 years are cut out from running SL. Apple is behaving no differently than any OEM such as Asus, Acer, Dell, HP and others: this is a real pity

Zandrax

**acstech** · 08-29-2009, 02:41 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Here's a thread where they're making it run on an MSI Wind Netbook:

http://forums.msiwind.net/mac/snowyw...ad-t13916.html

I thought those weren't 64-bit?

**KeriJane** · 08-29-2009, 05:25 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by acstech

Here's a thread where they're making it run on an MSI Wind Netbook:

http://forums.msiwind.net/mac/snowyw...ad-t13916.html

I thought those weren't 64-bit?

They aren't.

Snow Leopard does support the older 32-bit Core based CPUs found in older Intel MacBooks and the Mini.

My analogy wasn't meant to imply that Snow Leopard is 64-bit only. I was trying to point out that the nearest thing to a cutoff of old stuff that Microsoft tried was Windows 64-bit. Which actually worked OK but had little support from software and hardware vendors and thus little acceptance from users.

I don't feel that Apple's continuing its march forward is "Planned Obsolescence" and a deliberate attempt to cheat their customers.
They are (as they always have) offering continuous advancements in Hardware and Software and when that means 3-year old G5 systems lose full support, well, that's the price of progress and better than crippling Snow Leopard for the sake of machines that run Leopard just fine.

They do still offer regular updates to Tiger (pre-Leopard) and Leopard.

Have Fun,
Keri

**acstech** · 08-29-2009, 06:10 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Any more you about need 64-bit if you intend to use over 4GB ram (about 3GB in Windows due to other devices). You wouldn't use a 32-bit OS on a system with 8GB of ram for example, which is very easy to build anymore.

64 bit drivers aren't really a problem any more now that 64-bit OS's are becoming mainstream. XP 64-bit runs real good if all the drivers are available.

**weirdlookinguy** · 08-29-2009, 07:24 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Looks like 10.6 ain't so 64-bit after all:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10...ubj=News-Apple

**acstech** · 08-29-2009, 07:38 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Oops, looks like they screwed that one up. Oh well, at least I'll be able to run it on my (non-Mac) netbook.

I must agree with the previous post.

**bgavin** · 08-30-2009, 10:04 AM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by KeriJane

It's a shining example of what computers can be when a computer company doesn't try to be everything to everyone.

I stand at the entrance to the data center where I contract at Intel.
There are thousands of servers there. Aisles and aisles of racks, containing chassis that hold blade servers. Thousands of them, doing business, supporting engineering projects.
This is one data center out of many others. All with thousands of servers.

No Macs.

**stretch0069** · 08-30-2009, 10:59 AM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by bgavin

No Macs.

ouch.......

**Topcat** · 08-30-2009, 12:57 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by bgavin

I stand at the entrance to the data center where I contract at Intel.
There are thousands of servers there. Aisles and aisles of racks, containing chassis that hold blade servers. Thousands of them, doing business, supporting engineering projects.
This is one data center out of many others. All with thousands of servers.

No Macs.

I like my G5, but honestly, all it is right now is a cute toy. I've found so far that Apple has its claws deeper in you and your computer with its appz and other things they want to sell you, even moreso than microsoft...

Bad move on apple's part dropping support in 10.6 for the powerPC, which includes the G5. There's a lot of G5 users out there that won't be abandoning their hardware to upgrade to 10.6, dumb move guys.

**Phaihn** · 08-30-2009, 03:15 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

And this is why ill never buy a mac. and why dont they make it work on a PC?

**ratdude747** · 08-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

they do. its called osx86 i think. illegal but works.

**Phaihn** · 08-30-2009, 05:39 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by ratdude747

they do. its called osx86 i think. illegal but works.

i see

**KeriJane** · 08-30-2009, 06:04 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by bgavin

I stand at the entrance to the data center where I contract at Intel.
There are thousands of servers there. Aisles and aisles of racks, containing chassis that hold blade servers. Thousands of them, doing business, supporting engineering projects.
This is one data center out of many others. All with thousands of servers.

No Macs.

OK. But are there any Dual-Xeon ones? Because that's what you get when you buy a Mac Pro. Apple hasn't really targeted the server market much so that's not a surprise.
Also, I'll betcha they aren't running XP or Vista.

Originally posted by Topcat

like my G5, but honestly, all it is right now is a cute toy. I've found so far that Apple has its claws deeper in you and your computer with its appz and other things they want to sell you, even moreso than microsoft...
Bad move on apple's part dropping support in 10.6 for the powerPC, which includes the G5. There's a lot of G5 users out there that won't be abandoning their hardware to upgrade to 10.6, dumb move guys.

That's the whole point. G5s are much slower than Core-based Intels and a whole lot different. The OS would have to be completely different in many ways to support them both as Leopard does. This causes problems for both G5 and Intel systems. That's why they dropped it, to make Snow Leopard simpler, smaller and more reliable.

Oh! Apple does not "have their claws in me". I merely appreciate well-done computers that work extremely well. It is true that I may lose some technical ability from not having to fix, upgrade and de-virus it all the time, but I do that for lots of other people!

And this is why ill never buy a mac. and why dont they make it work on a PC?

Two reasons:
1- When Apple was down on their luck, King William helped them out in exchange for some promises about not competing directly with them. (as I recall)
2- Unlike Microsoft, Apple prefers to write their OS and softwares for a fixed, known and LIMITED variety of machines. This makes programming far simpler and vastly reduces the number of possible incompatibilities and errors.
That's why they work so well.
Leading to why people like me like them so much.

Have Fun,
Keri

PS. Since Apple makes most of it's money on Hardware, they're not all paranoid about software theft. As a result, there's no Activation or even any Serial Number/Product Key for the OS and many Apple apps.

That's also why it's relatively easy to hack onto a PC... lack of paranoid theft-prevention technologies

PPS No hostilities intended, OK?

**ratdude747** · 08-30-2009, 06:14 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

it also make it so they have a monopoly and charge people out the ass for stuff. the stuff is good but not that good.

**KeriJane** · 08-30-2009, 06:31 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by ratdude747

it also make it so they have a monopoly and charge people out the ass for stuff. the stuff is good but not that good.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But before you start accusing Apple of overcharging, please consider:

1- If YOU were running a computer company, wouldn't you want to make a decent profit? Remember, Apple is a relatively LOW-VOLUME company where they cannot responsibly cut the profit margin to the bone as others do. If they had Dells volume, there'd be more room for discount.

2- Price out what it would cost to build a Mac Pro equivalent sometime or price one from HP or Dell with similar specs. That's a Dual- quad-core Nehalem XEON workstation/server and they aren't cheap.

Have Fun,
Keri

PS. Please! Let's let Keri just pay through the nose for her expensive Mac addiction in peace, OK?

**kc8adu** · 08-30-2009, 07:57 PM

Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

Originally posted by Topcat

I like my G5, but honestly, all it is right now is a cute toy. I've found so far that Apple has its claws deeper in you and your computer with its appz and other things they want to sell you, even moreso than microsoft...

Bad move on apple's part dropping support in 10.6 for the powerPC, which includes the G5. There's a lot of G5 users out there that won't be abandoning their hardware to upgrade to 10.6, dumb move guys.

mine is identical to yours.
and when i get it running it will fill the same position.
TOY.
well it will be a testbed for poly mods.then it will be a toy or sold/swapped.

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