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    #1

    Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

    Background
    ========

    I recently received 4 socket 775 motherboards that were stripped bare (not even the 3V battery was included). The person who gave them to me said they "should all work". Well, after buying some used DDR2 memory and a couple of used Intel Core 2 Duo CPUs (E6300 and E6320), I managed to fix the Asus P5B-E board by replacing one obviously bloated KZG 820uf 6.3vcapacitor. The Asus P5B-E posts okay now. Before the recap, it would not post or power on. So now I have a known working power supply, CPUs, and memory to use for testing the 3 other motherboards. Onto the first motherboard below.

    Motherboard
    ========

    This is an Acer M5640 board made by Microstar. It will not POST. Specs are at



    Service manual at

    http://www.manualowl.com/p/Acer%20Co...0/Manual/65473

    Symptoms
    =======

    I have no idea what the history of these boards are.

    - HSF fan spins and never stops
    - no beeps
    - no display
    - no POST

    Tests done so far
    ===========

    Here is what I have tested so far and found. All resulted in no beeps and no POST.

    - all tests done below with the motherboard "bread boarded" (that is, out of the case sitting on a cardboard box)
    - installed new 3V battery (measures 3.13V DC on multimeter)
    - cleared CMOS battery by removing it for a hour and tried moving the clear CMOS jumper
    - all voltages on PSU are within spec
    - all voltages on the motherboard around the CPU, southbridge, and northbridge appear normal (1.3V around vcore, 1.8V DC around DIMM)
    - installed known working Intel E6300 CPU (supported by motherboard according to Acer specifications)
    - installed known working Kingston 512MB DDR2 memory
    - tried AMI BIOS recovery method listed at http://biosman.com/biosrecovery.html (however no floppy access/lights no USB drive access/lights)
    - keyboard (num, caps, and scroll lock) all light up initially and then go out (after that, it seems that the keyboard does not work)
    - tried one DIMM in slot 1 and then slot 2 and get no beep
    - tried removing all DDR memory and I still get no beep
    - all caps are either Nichicon HM(N) 2008 date code, or Panasonic FL
    - turn the board on an off by shorting out the power sw pins (this suggests that southbridge is partially working?)
    - tried known working video adapter in addition to onboard video

    Question
    ======

    Is there anything to try and make this board work?
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

    You have nVidia chipset there. It may not necessarily be the problem, but it is something to consider. If nothing seems to work, give it a reflow. (Oven method not recommended due to plastic parts and caps on board).
    Perhaps give it a wash and try it again before you try the reflow. Slim chances that it will work, but it's also easier.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

      Originally posted by momaka View Post
      Perhaps give it a wash and try it again before you try the reflow. Slim chances that it will work, but it's also easier.
      I have done a lot of reading on this subject which is new to me (motherboards) and haven't seen the wash suggestion. What exactly is it supposed to fix?

      And by wash, do you mean using distilled water to wash the motherboard?

      I also thought about the chipset and reflow using a heatgun. Just waiting for a heatgun to go on sale before I consider that route.

      Edit: Never Mind. I found what you were talking about in this post

      https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...8&postcount=39
      Last edited by retiredcaps; 09-25-2011, 02:35 AM.
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        #4
        Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

        I got one of those cheap POST cards off ebay and it doesn't display anything on the 2 LED for the Acer M5640. It shows that 3.3V 5V, 12V are present, but I knew that already from my multimeter.

        I verified that the POST card works by plugging it into a working ASUS motherboard.
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          #5
          Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

          I guess it's time to reflow then. I don't know what else to suggest.
          Before you reflow, you might want to remove some of the caps next to the chipset and cover the others with aluminium foil to avoid overheating them.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

            I pull and check the BIOS chips. If it's an nVidia I give up really fast.
            sig files are for morons

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

              Originally posted by momaka View Post
              I guess it's time to reflow then.
              My friend will lend me a heat gun on the weekend so I will give it a try.
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                #8
                Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                Originally posted by severach View Post
                I pull and check the BIOS chips. If it's an nVidia I give up really fast.
                I don't have the means to read the BIOS chip and verify that is not corrupted. I'll give the heat gun a try. It will be my first attempt at a reflow.
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                  #9
                  Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                  Originally posted by momaka View Post
                  I guess it's time to reflow then.
                  After watching some of the reflow videos on the

                  http://www.youtube.com/user/CubeComputerChannel

                  I decided to give it a try as momaka suggested.

                  I heated up the board for about 3.5 minutes and let it cool for about 20 minutes. I plugged in my post card and saw a display and almost proceeded to fall over in disbelief. I can't believe it worked.

                  Here is a screenshot of the BIOS. I haven't run complete tests on the board as there could be other things wrong, but at least I can boot and get into the BIOS.

                  Huge thanks to momaka for suggesting the reflow.

                  I'm going to examine the other 2 dead socket 775 boards to see if they warrant a reflow or not as well.
                  Attached Files
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                    #10
                    Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                    The reflow suggestion for nVidia chipsets has often been given here by other members, so I just simply restated . I'm glad you got your board working, though .

                    Make sure to change the thermal compound on the northbrige and maybe add a fan or change the heatsink for a bigger one. From what I've read from around here, the primary reason why these chipsets die is because the lead-free solder under the chipset cannot tolerate heat very well and eventually breaks.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                      Originally posted by momaka View Post
                      From what I've read from around here, the primary reason why these chipsets die is because the lead-free solder under the chipset cannot tolerate heat very well and eventually breaks.
                      Would it be a reasonable assumption that this applies to non nvidia chipsets as well?

                      I have a couple of more "no post" boards that are using SIS and I believe the problem could be the same. In any case, I guess it won't hurt to try since I got them for free.
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                        #12
                        Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                        It is possible (although unlikely) that those other chipsets could have the same problem as well. However, if these other boards have had bad caps, check all of the voltage regulators first and make sure everything is alright there. If yes and you can't find any problems, then do a reflow of the chipset.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                          Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                          Would it be a reasonable assumption that this applies to non nvidia chipsets as well?
                          Excessive temperature and BGA are a recipe for disaster for any make of chip. Lead free solder doesn't make it the ball breakage problem worse and leaded solder doesn't make it better. Lead free solder only makes the repair harder. BGA is a terrible package and must be kept much cooler than the specifications recommend. At least one motherboard refurbisher is adding small fans to the nVidia North Bridge heat sinks to cut down on the periodic replacements as short as a few months.

                          The reason nVidia has 10x the BGA failure rate of any other chip maker is that their chips have a defect in a place that none of the others do en masse: the die bumps. Each bump that breaks, whether die or board, increases the current and heat on the other bumps. When new the chips runs at reasonable temperatures. Bumps break slowly until enough break that the passive cooling is no longer sufficient and the high temperature breaks bumps faster and faster into a runaway situation. Bad chip design and running too hot are what get this ball rolling. Other chip makers didn't screw up the chip design and naturally run cooler. A bit cooler is enough to greatly extend life.

                          So long as this happens after the warranty runs out, no problem, right?

                          The Inquirer: Why Nvidia's chips are defective (part 1)
                          sig files are for morons

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                            Originally posted by severach View Post
                            E
                            The Inquirer: Why Nvidia's chips are defective (part 1)
                            Thanks for the explanation and link. I have been out of the PC world for a very very long time and this is somewhat all new to me (motherboard repair and any headline news).

                            Shame on Nvidia for their crisis management too.
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                              #15
                              Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                              Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                              I haven't run complete tests on the board as there could be other things wrong, but at least I can boot and get into the BIOS.
                              Now, I am running into problems. The computer boots, passes memtest, but is now starting to hang when trying to install lubuntu. I am using a known good DVD drive, IDE cable, SATA hard drive, SATA cable, and cd install.

                              I wonder if I did too much damage with the heat gun or there may be other things wrong before. The heatsink on the nvidia chip is quite warm, but not burn your finger hot. I did apply cpu grease before reinstalling the heatsink.

                              I reset the CMOS to factory defaults. I will have to do some more troubleshooting.
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                                #16
                                Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                                Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                                but is now starting to hang when trying to install lubuntu.
                                Are the caps lock and scroll lock lights blinking when this occurs?
                                ASRock B550 PG Velocita

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                                "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                                "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                                "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                                "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

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                                  #17
                                  Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                                  Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
                                  Are the caps lock and scroll lock lights blinking when this occurs?
                                  I will have to re-check tomorrow, but after lubuntu 11.10 complains about not finding a live writable file system (something like that), it drops me to a shell and then the keyboard doesn't work at all. Both the mouse and keyboard work initially during the install.

                                  I also tried an IDE drive, but I get the same results as the SATA drive (i.e. both hang).

                                  I also tried puppy linux, Windows XP Home Edition to rule out an OS install bug/problem.
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                                    #18
                                    Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                                    Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                                    complains about not finding a live writable file system (something like that)
                                    Sounds like the error Linux distros tend to give on newer hardware.
                                    I suspect it don't even recognize the ATA controller, especially when using the PATA controller!

                                    If the PATA controller is Marvell, that's probably the problem right there!

                                    Especially the optical drive being connected to a Marvell PATA controller.
                                    ASRock B550 PG Velocita

                                    Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

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                                    "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                                    "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                                    "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                                    "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                                      Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
                                      Sounds like the error Linux distros tend to give on newer hardware.
                                      I suspect it don't even recognize the ATA controller, especially when using the PATA controller!
                                      You are correct. With Lint or Lubuntu (I guess it doesn't matter since both use the same kernel I think), the recovery console complains about the SATA driver TEST_UNIT_READY failed. I tried all 4 SATA ports on the motherboard with 2 known working SATA drives and cables.

                                      Then it runs busybox terminal, but now my keyboard is locked up and the led for num, scroll, and caps lock are unlit.

                                      If the PATA controller is Marvell, that's probably the problem right there!

                                      Especially the optical drive being connected to a Marvell PATA controller.
                                      It could be a Marvell, but the messages scroll by so fast and since I don't have keyboard access, I can't do a dmesg to verify.

                                      A correction to my earlier post. Windows XP Home fails on the install saying it can't find a hard disk (SATA).

                                      I tried Bart PE and it also couldn't find the hard disk. FreeDOS also finds no hard disk.

                                      I tried Spinrite and it found the SATA drive and was able to test and do benchmarks. IIRC, Spinrite does low level bios commands to access the hard disk.

                                      I also updated the BIOS since I thought that something in the BIOS might be corrupt. The upgrade went okay, but now when the system boots it always complains about CMOS corrupt. I tried clearing the CMOS, setting it to fail safe defaults, but it always says the CMOS is corrupt.

                                      The CMOS battery is new and measures 3.127V DC when in use.

                                      Sigh. I may try reflowing in a few days if I can't figure out what the problem is. Alternatively, I may just run puppy linux on a CD-RW or try using a linux distro off the usb.
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                                        #20
                                        Re: Acer M5640/MSI OEM motherboard - NO POST

                                        Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                                        IIRC, Spinrite does low level bios commands to access the hard disk.
                                        Correction. Spinrite bypasses the system BIOS according to its technote.
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