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Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

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    #21
    Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

    Twas nice, though I prefer the shade of FCs better...

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      #22
      Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

      everybody will always miss mbz. lets hope rubycon comes out with a good replacement

      but then again, maybe in the future everything will be polymer on motherboards, things are slowly going that way for motherboards. But i'm not sure polymers can be properly integrated into power supplys. I mean, 400v polymer? not sure if thats even possible. and if it is, it won't be cost effective
      Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
      ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

      Comment


        #23
        Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

        Rubycon won't be replacing it. They're saying to use ZLG instead, but the ESR is not low enough. I can't say I blame them. There's much less demand for low-esr electrolytic capacitors since motherboard makers are now switching to polymers.

        Ultra-Low ESR caps will become a rarity in the future, and all you'll be able to buy is new old stock.
        "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

        -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

        Comment


          #24
          Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

          But Polymers will be OK to use instead won't they?
          "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
          -David VanHorn

          Comment


            #25
            Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

            not in all circuts. VRM's where theres parallel caps sure. but supposedly not startup caps or non-filter caps, at least thats the impression i've gotten so far
            Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
            ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

            Comment


              #26
              Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

              Tracing back caps to see which are VRM is a nightmare for me, that's why I don't use polymers.
              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

              Comment


                #27
                Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
                But Polymers will be OK to use instead won't they?
                Often not. - Especially if it's not in a motherboard VRM.

                Try finding a 2200uF 16v in Polymer.
                .. or even a 1500uF or a 1200uF 16v Polymer.
                You -might- even find some but then,,,
                I saw some 1000uF 16v a while back. They were over $7 each...
                .
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment


                  #28
                  Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                  Don't you halve it though? So a 16V 2200uF would become 8V 1100uF or more likly a 6.3V 1000uF which are inexpensive and widely available.

                  EDIT: I missed the part where you said if it's NOT in the VRM.

                  Thankfully, the motherboards are being designed these days to use lower valued caps but more of them rather than large valued ones. So only those pre-polymer designs might have no replacement parts in the future.
                  Last edited by mockingbird; 04-06-2011, 03:21 PM.
                  "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                  -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                    creating circuits is pretty mathematical. polys and lytics are not only different as far as the forumla they use inside, but the mathematical formula used to make circuits. this is why you must half the values

                    one thing I do notice is polys don't blow. I even put 10 of them in reverse accidentally on a dell gx270 and they withstood several attempted diagnostic attempts at starting that thing
                    Cap Datasheet Depot: http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/
                    ^If you have datasheets not listed PM me

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                      That explanation was a little ambiguous, but appreciated nonetheless.
                      "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                      -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                        So if Low-ESR electrolytics get dropped there is no replacement at all for them?
                        "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                        -David VanHorn

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                          Originally posted by Uranium-235 View Post
                          creating circuits is pretty mathematical. polys and lytics are not only different as far as the forumla they use inside, but the mathematical formula used to make circuits. this is why you must half the values

                          one thing I do notice is polys don't blow. I even put 10 of them in reverse accidentally on a dell gx270 and they withstood several attempted diagnostic attempts at starting that thing
                          Bunk.
                          Wrong all the way around.

                          Halving the uF is only safe in a VRM and even then only if you significantly reduce ESR.
                          - THAT comes from an application guide for a VRM controller chip.
                          It wasn't dreamed up out of the mist like some mods are.

                          Outside of a VRM the value of uF could be critical to the circuits operation and you'd best not jerk with it short of drawing out the entire circuit and doing ALL the math for it.

                          So far as polys not blowing,,
                          I just had one blow in a Dual CPU server board,, oh,, 45 minutes ago.
                          It blew load enough to startle me into stepping back.
                          It went out with a large puff of nasty nasty smelling black smoke.
                          The top of the can is now sitting a bit less than 1/4" higher from where it was before.
                          The 'legs' are that same amount longer than they were before.
                          It was an OSCON SEPC and in parallel with 9 others.
                          The clincher is it is VRM-out for the socket that did NOT even have a CPU installed.
                          It wasn't even loaded in that configuration.
                          - WTF! - This is NOT my day!

                          Anyone have any new 4 letter words? - I'm running out today..
                          .
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                            Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
                            So if Low-ESR electrolytics get dropped there is no replacement at all for them?
                            Only ones that speak Chinese.
                            .
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                              PCBONEZ, this accident is unfortunate. Hope it wasn't a recent board but an old one in case it blew something other than just the cap.

                              When you say halve the uF, do you also halve the voltage?
                              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                                Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                                PCBONEZ, this accident is unfortunate. Hope it wasn't a recent board but an old one in case it blew something other than just the cap.

                                When you say halve the uF, do you also halve the voltage?
                                No halving the voltage could be dangerous. If 12V is going through the capacitors on the VRM, and they are rated for 16V, halving it would give you 8V, which wouldn't work.

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                                  Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                                  Only ones that speak Chinese.
                                  .
                                  I am confused...
                                  "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                  -David VanHorn

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                                    Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                                    PCBONEZ, this accident is unfortunate. Hope it wasn't a recent board but an old one in case it blew something other than just the cap.

                                    When you say halve the uF, do you also halve the voltage?
                                    You know better than that...
                                    The rated voltage still has to be more than the actual circuit voltage.

                                    On the Vcore side of VRM in any thing I've seen in the last few years 2.5v caps are enough because CPU Vcore are under 2.0v.

                                    On the PSU side obviously you still need 16v caps.

                                    ---
                                    Was a dual skt 771. - Just sold it's 'brother' for $125.
                                    All I was doing was setting up to memtest some FB-DIMMs.
                                    .
                                    .
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                                      Originally posted by Agent24 View Post
                                      I am confused...
                                      CH and TW brands will still be around.

                                      I don't see Suncon dropping out soon. [Formerly aka Sanyo.]
                                      Panny and Nichicon aren't droppong out afaik.
                                      .
                                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                      -
                                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                      - Dr Seuss
                                      -
                                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                      -

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                                        Oh right, that makes sense now. In fact now that I know the answer I don't see how I failed to understand in the first place
                                        "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                                        -David VanHorn

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Re: Very ugly capacitors... or fake? (Panasonic FR)

                                          Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                                          On the Vcore side of VRM in any thing I've seen in the last few years 2.5v caps are enough because CPU Vcore are under 2.0v.
                                          Was curious because of exactly that... I thought I saw really low voltage polymers around some sockets so I was a little confused.
                                          Initially I thought that the reason for lowering the spec with polymer caps was because the higer ripple ratings compensated for the drop in voltage.

                                          Was a dual skt 771. - Just sold it's 'brother' for $125.
                                          All I was doing was setting up to memtest some FB-DIMMs.
                                          Sounds like old Core2 Xeons...

                                          Thanks for the clarification.
                                          "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                          -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                          Comment

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