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Old 01-10-2017, 07:16 AM   #1
televizora
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Default Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Hi! Today I came across an issue in one computer.
This computer is with installed PSU - Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF. When I realized that It wouldn't come on, I removed the PSU from the case and took it for testing and measuring. I found out that there is NO 5VSB - no standby voltage at all.
Please, direct me where should I look for the problem. Any help will be highly appreciated. This PC with Pentium3 Tualatin and 512MB RAM - for one of my friend's acquaintances, which don't have enough money to buy a new one for his kids.
This PSU is SFF, so standard PSU will NOT fit in the case. I'd rather prefer not to cut the case.
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Can we see some pictures? This is a very old PSU, and FSP/SPI used awful caps back in the day, most notably YEC, which would spew their guts or dry out. Start on the input side, is AC getting to the high voltage filter caps? Be careful when measuring!
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

The capacitors are mostly TEAPO and OST. None of the capacitors has bulging top.
I have Line voltage on the input side. This is SFF, so it's divided in three separate PCB-s.
There is voltage present between, both on the small board and where the small board is connected to the big board.
On the big board, there is 305V DC between the two legs of the big filter capacitors, which are 2x470uF at 200V.
The PSU worked two days ago, the PC was plugged in the power socket, and suddendly they found it completely dead.
I don't really know what has to be the glass component, marked with B1 on the board(last photo). I've seen shottky and zener diodes in such packages. When I'm plugging the power plug, this one is arching somewhat for part of a second...
Photos:




Last edited by televizora; 01-11-2017 at 03:46 AM..
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

This is 2 transistor thing. In the primary, I have 1H0165R and two E13009F. In the secondary, I have KA3511, from where 5V stb is coming.(PIN 6)
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

I'd be willing to guess that the startup capacitor has failed. It's probably 22 or 47mf, 50V. Also, you should be getting about ~160V through either one of those input caps, and the voltage doubles going in to the transformer. You should replace 100% of the caps. Over 14 years, it's very possible that those caps dried out slowly versus making enough gas at once to vent the tops.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentium4 View Post
I'd be willing to guess that the startup capacitor has failed. It's probably 22 or 47mf, 50V.
It's very difficult to see anything in this mess. I really don't know how they successfully put this PCB inside it's case.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

In the 2nd pic you've posted there is a cap with some residue at the top, it could be leaking also there is no 2-transitor circuit in this PSU the 1H0165R is in charge of the 5VSB circuit so asuming the fuse is good if there is no standby you must start by checking if 1H0165R is shorted or faulty, i'm attaching 1H0165R datasheet and a schematic close enough to your PSU, hope it serves you as a guide to troubleshoot.

Once you got it running again i strongly advice you to replace at least all output caps.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf KA1H0165R Fairchild.pdf (207.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: pdf FSP145-60SP.pdf (64.4 KB, 18 views)
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Check if 5VSB is shorted, if not, most common failure is the startup capacitor like pentium 4 said (even if the cap looks fine).
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Wait, you said b1 it's arching? That can't be good
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Yeah no kidding, how did they cram that thing in there, even with a PPFC coil. Just another reason to believe the little caps are dried out.
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDMX View Post
...also there is no 2-transitor circuit in this PSU the 1H0165R is in charge of the 5VSB...
What the hell is this switch, that bypasses the Diode Bridge?
What is the mysterious component, marked with B1?
So, they are using 1H0165R for the standby, and they use KA3511 for everything else - they pass the output of the 3511 thru one trafo to drive the second trafo? This is such a mess. If they only used TL494...

Last edited by televizora; 01-12-2017 at 03:22 AM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 03:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

How is B1 connected in circuit?
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent24 View Post
How is B1 connected in circuit?
In parallel with FL2.
Also, when we heat the capacitors, the capacitance increases and the ESR decreases(i think). I tried to heat all the capacitors in the primary side. If the capacitor condition two days ago was enough to make it work, i really don't understand how could it be so bad, that even with heating of the capacitor, the whole thing shows no signs of life.

Last edited by televizora; 01-12-2017 at 07:02 AM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Have you checked where do you loose the voltage? You have in the primary caps but after them?
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drack View Post
You have in the primary caps but after them?
Seems like dead standby IC. After the primary caps there is a trafo and the IC.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Look for the datasheet of the IC, they have a pin where there should be a voltage, if there is probably the IC died
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by televizora View Post
...On the big board, there is 305V DC between the two legs of the big filter capacitors, which are 2x470uF at 200V.
Missed this, can anyone on 230VAC mains confirm if this is right?, i'm on 115VAC so no idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by televizora View Post
I don't really know what has to be the glass component, marked with B1 on the board(last photo). I've seen shottky and zener diodes in such packages. When I'm plugging the power plug, this one is arching somewhat for part of a second...
Somehow I missed this, it looks like a glass discharge tube (GDT) but not sure, IF it is a GDT it should only "arc" under surge conditions so it maybe be faulty and it could potentialy killed 1H0165R but i'm just guessing you need to test the IC ,also as others have said check/change the startup capacitor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by televizora View Post
What the hell is this switch, that bypasses the Diode Bridge?
What is the mysterious component, marked with B1?
So, they are using 1H0165R for the standby, and they use KA3511 for everything else - they pass the output of the 3511 thru one trafo to drive the second trafo? This is such a mess. If they only used TL494...
It's not that complicated really, 1H0165R is a PWM + FET and switches the SB transformer, it's output feeds KA3511 which is a PWM + SMPS supervisor (think of it as a TL494 + LM393 in one package).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drack View Post
Look for the datasheet of the IC, they have a pin where there should be a voltage, if there is probably the IC died
Exactly, you should check if there is proper voltage at Vcc pin

Last edited by SIDMX; 01-12-2017 at 12:26 PM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDMX View Post
Missed this, can anyone on 230VAC mains confirm if this is right?, i'm on 115VAC so no idea.
....also as others have said check/change the startup capacitor.
In the schematic, where the start capacitor is? I only see 1H0165R, which is self-sufficient and it directly uses the input voltage after the filter caps.
And yes, I think it's the way it should be - about the voltage on the filter caps.
230 is effective, not maximum. When we rectify it, we put the sine on the positive side of the coordinate system. These half-sines are smoothed by the filter caps to the maximum amplitude voltage,which is 230*1.41=324V

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Old 01-12-2017, 01:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

The cap is immediate left from 1H0165R and it's labeled C28

Last edited by SIDMX; 01-12-2017 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 01-12-2017, 01:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Fortron 200-50SNV(PF) SFF - dead, no 5VSB

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIDMX View Post
The cap is immediate left to 1H0165R and it's labeled C28
Will have to remove the 1H, the heatsink and the other 2 transistors. Oh, hell..
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