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Old 08-03-2017, 04:07 PM   #21
Spork Schivago
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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Originally Posted by jondoe View Post
I think you dodged an expensive bullet there.

HP do plenty of Proliant server chassis with loads of 2.5" and 3.5" drive bay options. What you buy should be sized/spec'd for the work load, 10K drives and lots of spindles means lots of IOPS, do you need that? If you want plain cold storage and occasional access, that would be over kill, you could have less spindles and larger drives, etc.
Yeah, but if I plan on renting slices of the server out to customers to be used as virtual private servers, then we'd need those drives, wouldn't we? Otherwise, I'd think it'd be slower than a snail. Say I split it up so 20 users are sharing the server. I'd think I'd need a sustained data rate, rather than burst. I'm trying to think ahead a bit. Like use it now for one purpose, but try to build it for another purpose. That way, I don't need a lot of start up cash to have it start making me money. And eventually, change the role of server, after I've built it up the way I want it.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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I'd rather take a 1TB SSD over a pair of 10k 1.2TB SAS drives in raid.
Your images would be deployed in rapid time and you could use a desktop PC.
Is solid state a smart idea though for servers? Right now, they probably be fine, but if I do rent out slices of it, I'd imagine those sustained speeds from a SAS would be much better than the burst rate that would come with the SSDs. Unless I'm misunderstanding how these drives work.

I misread your original question. I thought you were asking what I planned to backup to the storage array, not what I'd back the storage array up to.

I'm thinking tape. I know it's old, but I still feel it's a good, reliable backup solution. At first, I wouldn't have any tape backup or anything like that, but over time, I'd end up purchasing one of those auto-loaders, where you just put like 8 tapes in at once, and every day, it'll switch to a new tape. Maybe each day, take the tape out and store it somewheres. Do a month's worth of backup and then cycle them or something? I dunno yet. Maybe I'd do a full backup once a week, and then an incremental backup each day.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

60Mb/s is the snail. Does your ISP allow resale ?

My way is quick, quiet, cheap and has redundancy and is for your current requirements.
Once you've made your money quicker if its viable, upgrade your connection and get your server.
The PC then becomes backup for your server.
Raid is not backup. Just in case you missed it the first time.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

Not with the current one that I have, we'd have to switch to business class. But we don't plan on staying with Spectrum much longer. We're going to make the switch to Empire Access, and I've talked to them, with the business account, I can pay for the redundant fiber, and get faster speeds than what they offer for consumer (currently, consumer is either 100Mbps, or 1,000Mbps, download, depending on what package you go for).

60Mbps with Spectrum obviously wouldn't be a good idea. That's a cable modem. The other company would be fiber.

For the RAID statement, I know RAID is not backup. People make that mistake all the time. What happens if the file system becomes corrupt? RAID won't fix that! Or if your system gets hacked. Do you want to take the chance of removing the exploit / rootkits / malicious software? I know I wouldn't. I'd format, reinstall, and then head to the backups. When you're dealing with paying customers, shit like this matters.

I've wanted to do this for a long time, but my idea has changed a bit over time. When I was young, I wanted to provide dial up access to customers when I got older. Now though, dial up is all but about dead.

So the current suggestions you offered would only be for my current requirements? I wouldn't be able to use that NAS for the hosting provider stuff?

For what it's worth, Spectrum is a bit of a rip off, in my opinion. With Empire, for 65$ for the first 6 months, then 120$ after, we get 100Mbps download, telephone (local and long distance in US), and television. That's cheaper than what we're currently paying and it's better! Spectrum says when our "promo" runs out, the bill will be 800$ a month! We changed our current setup once. With TWC, this was allowed, but I guess with Spectrum, it breaks the promo and you gotta pay full price!

All we did was tell them we didn't want the whole home DVR, and just wanted two DVRs instead. They said they'd do it, it wouldn't change the price....then the bill comes. 800$! Me, being naive like I am, figure this must be a mistake on Spectrum's part. So I call, and sure enough, it wasn't!!!! They said by changing the setup, we broke the promo and had to pay full price. But I told them I asked questions like that when we made the switch! I said I asked if the bill was going to go up, and originally, they said yes, to over 800$. I said we were going to switch to another company. They said wait, okay, we can give it to you at the current price until 8/10/17. I told the guy what he was trying to do was called the bait and switch and that I was going to call the attorney general! he put me on hold and came back and said they could do the current price (almost 200$) until 8/10/2017, then it'll go back up. He says when it gets close to 8/10/17, just call and say we're going to switch, and they'll give us a new promotion.

We're not doing that crap. We're just going to switch for real. Empire seems like a much better company. We pay less, get faster service. It's all over fiber though, and that worries me a little. Currently, we can lose TV, but still have phone and internet. But most of the time, the internet and telephone don't work anyways. I can't tell how many times we got a new cable modem since Spectrum took over. We've lived in this house since October of 2016 and I think this is now our fourth cable modem....the last "new" one they sent us was actually smoking when I plugged it in!!!! Not at first, but maybe 30 minutes in. Could you imagine if I had gone to bed and just left for it to setup itself? It could have caught fire and burned the house down!

Then, when I call them, they can't even send out a tech with a new cable modem! They say we have to drive all the way up to Horseheads (or maybe it was Elmira) and exchange it for one. They said they didn't have any way to tell the techs to bring a new one. They could put in a service call, but they wouldn't have a cable modem on them. What a joke!
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

I know it's not the best way to manage the money, but I can't stop thinking about that Gen 9 with that Xeon processor. A 22-core Xeon, used, is only 1,000$. This supports the Xeon E5-2699Av4 2.4GHz, 22 core, 55MB L3 cache, 145W TDP, 9.6GT/s QPI, 2400 MHz max RAM speed CPUs.

I just can't stop thinking about it. It comes with two of those 600GB SASes. I could use them, not in a RAID5, but I could still use them currently, and make money off of it.

I just want it sooooo bad! And now, because of the laptops I fixed today, I got the rest of the money. It's sooooo hard not to just click buy now.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:35 PM   #26
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

Being a hosting reseller gives me the ability to sell hosting with none of the hassle or costs(bandwidth/hardware/electricity/redundancy/backup) of managing the sites.
Neither the coder nor the designer I know host customer's sites themselves. Dev sites, but not live ones.
A SATA SSD will beat a SAS HDD.
I'd have a SSD for images and maybe a hard drive(s) for media in one and hard drives for backup in the other.
If you want to spend money I refer back to Qnap and Synology.
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:48 AM   #27
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

Hosting your own hardware at home is, shall we say, brave? You'd be much better placed reselling space, or, if you can find rack space in a small data center, building a platform there. The cost of hosting is very low these days, being competitive and making a living from it might be tough.

Most hosting will offer you SAS or SSD, they offer different price points for different work loads, it isn't once size fits all, unless money is no object
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:21 AM   #28
Spork Schivago
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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Being a hosting reseller gives me the ability to sell hosting with none of the hassle or costs(bandwidth/hardware/electricity/redundancy/backup) of managing the sites.
Neither the coder nor the designer I know host customer's sites themselves. Dev sites, but not live ones.
A SATA SSD will beat a SAS HDD.
I'd have a SSD for images and maybe a hard drive(s) for media in one and hard drives for backup in the other.
If you want to spend money I refer back to Qnap and Synology.
Thank you! So you rent something, like a VPS from a company, and then just sell shares of it? I know this is allowed with Linode's and I know this is kind of expected with cPanel / WHM installations.

Thanks!!!!!
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:23 AM   #29
Spork Schivago
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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Hosting your own hardware at home is, shall we say, brave? You'd be much better placed reselling space, or, if you can find rack space in a small data center, building a platform there. The cost of hosting is very low these days, being competitive and making a living from it might be tough.

Most hosting will offer you SAS or SSD, they offer different price points for different work loads, it isn't once size fits all, unless money is no object
I had planned, originally, to offer different plans, with different amount of resources. But maybe I'll go with Diif's suggestion and just be a reseller. I know two 22 core Xeon E5-2699v4, used, go for about 1,000$ each. A lot of them are engineering samples, but I don't think there's much difference between them and the retail ones, is there?
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:43 AM   #30
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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Thank you! So you rent something, like a VPS from a company, and then just sell shares of it? I know this is allowed with Linode's and I know this is kind of expected with cPanel / WHM installations.

Thanks!!!!!
I resell their hosting. I rent nothing and sell a share of nothing.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:00 AM   #31
Spork Schivago
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

Can you go a bit more in detail Diif? You don't rent VPSes or anything? I rent my Linode VPS for 20$ a month. How would you resell that? Thanks.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

I pay about 50 a month and resell the hosting of websites/email between 5 and 15 a month depending on what they have.
I don't have anything that requires a VPS but I can add them if required.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:23 AM   #33
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

There are a few off site backup outfits that allow you to resell their services with a complete re-skin on their software to match your own company, your end user never knows it's not "Sporks Backups TM", you just take a cut of the payments.
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:46 PM   #34
Spork Schivago
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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I pay about 50 a month and resell the hosting of websites/email between 5 and 15 a month depending on what they have.
I don't have anything that requires a VPS but I can add them if required.
I gotcha. For the people that are buying the hosting services off of you for websites, do they get their own domain or do you create a subdomain for them or use something maybe like http://diif.com/sporkschivagos_website/index.html
?

Thanks!
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Old 08-04-2017, 03:52 PM   #35
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

They get their own domain(s).
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:16 AM   #36
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

But they have to register their domains themselves through a registrar like GoDaddy or something, right? You don't register them yourselfs for them or anything, right?

Thanks for sharing this with me Diif.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:42 AM   #37
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No, they don't have to do anything if they don't want to.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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No, they don't have to do anything if they don't want to.
Maybe I should look into doing something like that. Do you mind me asking if you make decent money? I'm trying to find ways to bring in some extra cash where I don't have to be working all the time. I know this is going to sound horrible, but my wife is still having some issues adjusting to the baby. I've tried to get her to go to another doctor and talk to them about it, but she won't. Some days, she's wonderful with Chloe. Other days,. I gotta make sure I'm there. This makes working on PCs hard. I work in the basement, that's where she wants me working on stuff so it don't clutter the house up. Sometimes, I come up to check on things, and the baby will be climbing the baby gate trying to get upstairs. My wife will be upstairs sleeping. I've told her if she needs to sleep or can't handle her, just to come get me, no matter what I'm doing. I'll always put family before work. She was on my bank accounts. I saved a lot of money, working hard, so I wouldn't have to work so hard when the baby came. But she recently spent a very large amount of it. Not all on the baby either. She works until 1:15pm on Mon, wed, Thurs, Friday. And she works until 11:15am on Tuesdays. But every day she gets out at 1:15, she won't get home until 3 or 4. When she works until 11, she'll come home around 2 or so, when it's time for the little one to go down for a nap. When she wakes up, shell say she's gotta run here or there real quick but will be gone for three or four hours. She seems really sad. The baby has bonded real good with me, but not so much with her mum. And this worries me. I want to try interacting with both of them more often, rather than having to work when my wife comes home. We still need money though. This last month, I couldn't do a lot of work and money was a bit tight. That's when I realized something has to change. If I'm playing with Chloe, and Jess is there, we're good. But when they're alone, not so much. I wanted to bring in some money where I didn't have to spend so much time making it.
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Old 08-12-2017, 07:59 PM   #39
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

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Is anyone familiar with the HP StorageWorks D2700's? Specifically the AJ941A? I'm thinking of purchasing one.

8<

I plan on using it as a stand-alone NAS and I don't plan on purchasing a ProLiant server anytime soon.

I believe it supports hard drives up to 1.2TB in size. I was planning on RAID5'ing them and buying 3 to start with. I want the 10K SAS drives. Because of the price, I was wondering if you guys thought buying new open-box was a good idea.
Consider how you intend to actually use the storage.

Do you really need "instant" access to all of those files? How often do you reference your 2014 taxes AFTER 15 April 2015? I.e., you want it "available" and "intact" -- but, can probably tolerate a delay of minutes to access it! (i.e., by storing it off-line)

When you've filled every bay with 1.2T drives, will you buy a second array? Or, start replacing 1.2T drives with 3T drives? (Hint: as volume size increases, rebuild times can get outrageously long! If the cause of the problem is array related, you can lose your redundancy before you can rebuild the faulted volume)
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:34 PM   #40
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Default Re: Potential HP D2700 NAS purchase

This is what makes it a little difficult. The use of the storage is going to change. At first, it will be used to deploy images, that was the idea, to bring cash in. Using Windows Server 2012 R2 to properly deploy fully updated images of various Window operating systems. So if someone brings me a laptop with Windows 7, I don't have to spend three days running Windows update.

But as time goes on, the idea was the role of this storage array would change. I'd hook it up to a DL380 Gen 9 server. I'd rent out slices of it for people to use for VPSes. I'd have a fiber backbone. There'd be redundancy, but not a backup building. So if there's a flood or a fire, everything's gone.

Eventually, we'd take the money to buy a second DL380 Gen 9 and D2700. It'd be our "development system". Anytime we'd make a change, it'd be on the dev server first, then we'd switch it over.

We'd have a few NASes and RAM and maybe CPUs lying around in case something goes bad. I think with the DL380 Gen 9, you can actually have these in the system, just as backup. (the RAM I mean). With the DL380 Gen 9, I think if I built it up enough, I could install some virtual machines, and maybe run Windows Server 2012 R2 in a virtual machine, and still use it for deployment.
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