My woes with desoldering tools

[pentium]

I don't know if it's a gift, bad tools or simple retardation but I've NEVER had luck with desoldering parts.

Back when I first started recapping I had the classic desoldering bulb. It was cheap but it worked. Eventually I made my way up to the desoldering pens and never really looked back. However I could never properly desolder much else without damaging the components or the PCB. I ended up hacksawing off parts and then using the oven (and alter a hot air gun) to separate the parts. Still had a lot of wrecked parts but it was faster than the pen. Forget wick, I could never get that crap to work.
About ten years ago I got one of those Radio Shack desoldering irons with the bulb and stuff. Never really liked it because it did an amazing job of ripping up PCB's and doing a very poor job.

Anyways, so for christmas this year I asked Santa for a proper desoldering gun.


GaoJie's are no Hakko 808 but a lot of the parts are interchangeable and they're pretty much the same specs. They also cost about $120. I had also seen them and their variants cleanly, effortlessly and even rapidly desolder parts to the point they literally fell off the board. This is what I had been wanting for over a decade and santa got me one for Christmas.

Now we go back to the beginning. Like I said, I've never had luck with desoldering tools and astoundingly this gun is horrible. The vacuum is fine. I can set it to anywhere in 350-450c but there's just no thermal transfer from the tip. Even clean and tinned it can take upwards of thirty seconds to just get the solder on a through-hole resistor to melt and even then most of the time you get a hole which is only half cleared. I can't blame the tool because it's based off a tried and true design so what's the deal?

[mariushm]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

As usual, there are oxidized solder joints, which prevent heat transfer.
Add a drop of solder ON the tip of your desoldering gun, so that the solder will make better thermal contact with the joint you want to suck solder from.
Add a drop of liquid flux on the solder joint you want suck solder from.

When you put the tip of your desoldering gun on the joint, the solder on the gun tip and the tip itself will heat up the flux, activate it which removes the oxides at least partially, which allows heat to be transferred and heat up the old solder, and now you can gently move the tip of your gun around the lead (don't press it cause you'll tear the copper pad) and then hit the button to suck up the solder.
You move the gun tip around the lead so that the lead won't stick to the walls of the through hole and will allow solder to be sucked from the other side of the board as well.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

I can't blame the tool because it's based off a tried and true design so what's the deal?

Nop just blame the tool, which is a cheap copy of the Japanese DEN-ON SC5000 which nowadays is EOL.
Even so the pump always was poor performing, and regarding heating time, you better expect 15 minutes warm-up as something reasonable.
But this is not all, this tool is exclusively for single side PCB.

In conclusion it is not useful even in the third world, because even there they do have those days modern television sets too.

[pentium]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

Really guys?

mariushm: I've been soldering for over ten years. I know when a joint needs to be prepped before work. These are fresh joints I make just for testing. I can't even try cleaning up a used DB25 connector. They ain't melting. There's no thermal transfer. Could it be a faulty tin job on the tip?


Kiriakos GR: you're totally going to slag it because it's chinese?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

Never used one of those guns but plan to buy one, especially due to this video on the EEVBlog. I'm sorry to hear it does not work for you, maybe you got a dud? Check that the tip gets hot enough.

In practice, the desoldering pump almost always lifts pads, so i need a better solution. Braid works great, but good braid is expensive. I use Goot Wick exclusively since i first bought it, it's awesome but it ain't cheap, so i reserve it for when i absolutely need it.

[mariushm]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

pentium: i had no way of knowing how much experience you have and you did not mention in your posts that you tested with freshly soldered components.

Anyway, ignore Kiriakos, he's the forum clown.

What else could I say... get a multimeter with temperature measurement or an actual temperature probe and see how hot the tip is, maybe the heating element is too far back in the unit..

I didn't test desoldering guns from China but I do have hot air guns and they work just fine for the price. They should work for some single or double layer boards.

[Ltank]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

I have a Denon 7000 that I have had for years and it gets used alot. I am happy with it.
the one in the pic above looks alot like what i got

[pentium]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

Never used one of those guns but plan to buy one, especially due to this video on the EEVBlog.

You saw the same video as me. That's pretty much the same device but the controls and pump are not all in the gun. THAT is what I'm expecting to see.

What else could I say... get a multimeter with temperature measurement or an actual temperature probe and see how hot the tip is, maybe the heating element is too far back in the unit..

I have a digital thermometer. Tip is at the range I have set. Poke it with solder and it will instantly melt but just balls up and falls off....

[c_hegge]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

It almost sounds like the tip is made of stainless steel or something, which solder doesn't stick to. Surely, though, not even the cheap no name manufactures would be that stupid.

[rievax_60]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

As a last resort, try to tin the tip using Zinc Chloride soldering fluid. Its rather corrosive. Keep it away from everything else.

[pentium]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

It almost sounds like the tip is made of stainless steel or something, which solder doesn't stick to. Surely, though, not even the cheap no name manufactures would be that stupid.

I think you are right.
The sides of the tip still more than easily melt solder instantly. If I do it right I can clear holes and pads but because I can't twirl the pin around it's still soldered on one side of the hole. I looked through the box it came in and I didn't receive any spare tips but you can get new ones for $8. I'll give the zing chloride thing a try, then consider a new tip with a warranty.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

Kiriakos GR: you're totally going to slag it because it's Chinese?

I like to re insure you that I am one of the most Asian friendly Europeans,
it just happened to own the Japanese prototype since 1996 until last month which totally collapsed.

Even made the thought to get parts from the one that you find so to repair it, and my discovery was that there is only one importer of them in USA which is bad in answering back emails.

I would say that your story just awakened to me, bad memories.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

pentium:
Anyway, ignore Kiriakos, he's the forum clown.

I have whoop your ass many times in 2013, you better change your tactic now, this is not EEV in which the kids run the show.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

I don't care who whoops whose ass. I care whether that Chinese desoldering tool can be useful, because i'm considering buying the same. So i'm awaiting a reply from pentium.

[momaka]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

My friend got a Hakko 808 for his repair shop a few years ago. Since he too has always had bad luck with desoldering irons, he asked me to play around with it and try to learn how to use it. I read the instructions thoroughly (some sections like maintenance, even three times). Had no problem desoldering components on single and thin dual-layer PCBs, but everything else didn't work that great.

So overall, I would have to agree with Kiriakos here - for what it's worth, this tool is a bit outdated for the hardware out there today. My friend even went as far as getting many of the different tip sizes for it in hopes of making it easier to desolder HDMI connectors from PS3s. It didn't work. In the end, we were back to hot air and solder.

I would like to note, however, that I too have not had that much luck with desoldering equipment myself. Besides the iron above, I rarely use wick as well (except for cleaning BGA pads). Most of the time it's either hot air or flood-everything-with-solder when I need a large component removed. One time, I removed an entire 6-channel audio port from a desktop motherboard by just melting a big ball of solder on the bottom side and wiggling the connector away. It was quick and painless and there was no damage to the motherboard or traces at all. To do this, however, you need a powerful temperature controlled soldering station. I'm not even sure if those stations with the common Hakko tips will do. My station has one of those tips with the embedded heating element and temperature probe, so it responds nearly instantly to any changes in the tip temperature.

[Kiriakos GR]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

Basically what killed the reputation regarding usability of the old desoldering tools is those hard to see metal inserts that is fitted in the PCB holes.

Those metal inserts started to shown up before 15 years, and they were used so to offer better contact and mechanical support to the HV transformers in a TV set.

Nowadays are used as jumpers between dual or more PCB layers.
They are so narrow in their internal diameter which the old pumps are not capable to supply the necessary heat and air pressure which would vacuum all the solder.

The recent rework stations ( with a true pump) they do come with adequate heating power and air pressure.
Therefore they do the job, but if they fall in inexperienced hands, they outcome of the battle is negative for the operator.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

I have a ZD915

I have use for about 4 years

It work very well how ever if the trace are wide or on a double side board it can be a pain in the ass to have the trace hole clean

Here one thing you can try turn the heat control all the way up and hold it still for about 30 seconds or until you see the soldier has melted on the other side of the board

If you have the part out and your hole is not clean you can try this

The other thing you can also try is this if you have a hot air gun and a SMD Nozzle
[NOT a heat gun] is on one side of the board use the hot air gun [or a soldering iron] and the de-soldering gun on the hole that you need to clean out

I hope this helps

[clickclack]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

I think you are right.
The sides of the tip still more than easily melt solder instantly. If I do it right I can clear holes and pads but because I can't twirl the pin around it's still soldered on one side of the hole. I looked through the box it came in and I didn't receive any spare tips but you can get new ones for $8. I'll give the zing chloride thing a try, then consider a new tip with a warranty.

Did you ever try the Zinc Cloride or buy a replacement tip, Pentium?

I've also made the mistake of buying this desoldering iron, actually I bought the s-993a but it's practically the same. The tip worked great for about 20 joints, but now the solder doesn't stick to it at all.

[pentium]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

Well after two months of playing I've determined that if I don't want to trash the board the gun works well with three or less PCB layers. More than that and you run into thermal dissipation issues so a modern motherboard is generally no-go but older stuff, power supplies and perfboard are well in the range of workable.

[Gabriel]

Re: My woes with desoldering tools

What about the thermal transfer from the tip and the solder that melt but just balls up and falls off ?

Zinc cloride or did you buy a replacement tip ?