How do I make this AC fan run?

[Behemot]

I got this huge fan from outter part of a splitted air conditioner unit. It is 60W mains fan with four wires (orange, red, blue, black)+ground.

The problem is, I don't know how to make it run without the AC, just on mains. There is some schematic on it, I think it actually needs the capacitor to create phase difference (I can go and get it, that is no problem) but still, where do I connect what? I mean, for one phase (230 V) I got only neutral and phase (plus ground) and here are four connection points.

I can experiment with safety balast (100 W lightbulb in series), in fact, I already did and failed to make it spin…

[Mrx3750]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

Three phase motor?

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

That would be 380 V labeled, no? This is labeled as 220 V which implies single phase if I am not mistaken…or not?

This says single-phase (different power but basically the same motor).

[goontron]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

where i live 220v is 2 phase hot to hot

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

It is phase to neutral here, 400 V 3-phase combined (triangle or star)

I think I got it, there was another schematic hidden in the AC. The red and orange are purely for the capacitor, that leaves black and blue for phase and neutral.

Works like charm now

ADD// This is some ass kicking airflow! Now I just need to wire some grill on that as I would not want to stick anything into this thing while running

[budm]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

Just Google that model number.
This is what I get by searching using the model number on the fan as shown in the picture. See here:

See page spec used in CSS-70H3A-W**ASA pgae77, 78. Hook up Diagram page 83

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

I did and found nothing, but anyway, I made it running already…in process of making grill cover for the fan now.

Seems that the horrible thing has airflow of ~4000-5000 m^3/h. I think I'll ad some capacitor in series in time

[eccerr0r]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

A bit late now but this seems like it's a typical induction motor, and the capacitor is necessary to get it spinning (and generate some torque).

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

I thought it's there to bring the PF closer to 1…

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

One real quick think if this motor in not being used in an AC unit and you are using as a fan you need to check the ampage on the black wire and it should not be higher than .70 amps or you will over heat this motor real fast

In a past life I use to be AC tech

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

I don't know but it is making incredible airflow, should not it be able to keep itself cool pretty easily? It is already mounted and plugged in…I can cut part of the original insulation and measure the wires with my clamp meter though. Or I may use wattmeter. Let's just see how noisy it is, I want to sleep while running it not far away, if it will be too much, I'll add an X capacitor in series to bring the speed down which will also limit the current little bit.

[tom66]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

The capacitor is used to start and run the motor, to provide a phase shift, not for power factor. Power factor would have cap across live and neutral.

[budm]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

It is rated at 150W, fixed speed of 850 +/-20 RPM.
http://www.smartclima.com/air-conditioner-fan-motor.htm

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

Yes?

[redwire]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

As you suggest, you can put a capacitor in series with the mains (not to be confused with the 4uF start winding phase-shift capacitor) to slow the fan down. I don't recommend it because you can get resonance with the motor and mains cap sometimes, and it also is pretty sparky on the power switch.

Chinese fans, since copper is expensive, will use the fewest turns on the windings...

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

I have actually cracked it open, seemed OK to me. I have seen much smaller 150W+ motors.

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

I measured the current, it takes slightly over 0,8 A, meter shows 200 W or so. The motor does get somewhat hot when I turn it down and is only slightly warm under operation so I think it gets hot inside and cools itself down from outside when spinning. I think it also moves unneccesarilly much air for my use.

What capacitance do you think I should use in series to reduce to aprox. 2/3 the speed?

[redwire]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

To slow down the fan using a series capacitor, it's really hard without knowing the reactance and even then some fans run the flux density really high.
I guess 8-10uF as a starting point, at mains voltage.
I would use a bigger motor starting-cap, like the oil-can types.
It's important that they have a (internal) bleeder resistor as this size cap can bite.

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

Man that's huge Bigger starting cap, well, how much bigger?

ADD// what about making the startup cap smaller? That may reduce the phase shift thus run it slower, no?

ADD2// so using 2,2 uF as a startup cap makes it run slower enough…takes 190 watts than, same current but PF drops to 0,91

[Behemot]

Re: How do I make this AC fan run?

There is 50 °C on top of the motor while operational and 60 °C while trned off. So even if there was 65-70 °C inside when running, I don't about you, but I call that OK for 24/7 operation.