abit vp6 poly mod

[PCBONEZ]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

I should say what I want to say, even if my father thinks what I say about capacitors and power supplies is total BS.

YOU would be the one that is right in this case.

~~~

If he firmly believes what he says then he wouldn't mind you filling his motherboard full of GSC caps now would he?
- Wait till he isn't looking!

.

[370forlife]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

I know this discussion is pretty old by now, but I use Vista on my gaming computer, and it runs faster than xp sp2 ever did. I believe 980mb is ok on a new computer. Think about it. XP pro uses about 220-250mb ram on a 512mb machine, thats about 50% of the ram. Ok, new (OEM) computers come with anywhere from 2, 4, or even 6gb of ram, ok? So 980mb on a 2gb computer is about 50%, same as xp would use on a 512mb machine which is what most OEM machines had when xp first came out, now 980mb of a 4GB (what I run,) is about 25% (mine actually uses about 22%), on a 6GB computer is 16% of the ram. It uses about the same percentage of ram as xp did, but new technologies, advancements and standards in the specifications of computers allows windows to be a bigger operating system and it needs more resources. I bet you money that people with pent 3's with 128mb of ram were complaining of the same thing when they upgraded them to xp.

[370forlife]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

I would also like to say that, though your father the electrical engineer may not have done this, many people, seems especially in that profession, simply go through college learning what they need to to pass a test and graduate without really learning anything. They get a job, and stay there, don't keep up with changes in the industry and do it their entire lives. I don't really trust anyone in the computer profession, I get to know them and see if they actually know what they are talking about. My sister's boyfriend's friend john is a IT guy (i don't know if full title,) at a industrial company. At first i was skeptical at how much he actually knows, but it turns out he knows almost anything about everything (he can even recap motherboards, a feat I didn't know existed in my small town,) and he loves his job and makes A LOT of money doing it (he was bragging to us at his last lan party about what is salary for this year is, if he dosen't do anything stupid, he will be pulling in 6 figures.) I wouldn't doubt it either, he has a 3 story 4000 sq.ft house, 600 acres of land, 14 cars and trucks (some regular, some racing, some off-roaders,) and a awesome computer.

[arneson]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Don't confront your father, there's nothing good that comes from that.
Just learn all you can and give him a knowing smile.
He'll feel better and so will you.
20 years ago, most of the televisions coming into shop for repair had a bad filter cap in the power supply, easy diagnose, easy repair.
Electrolytics have failed and will continue to fail, and he knows it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

I know this discussion is pretty old by now, but I use Vista on my gaming computer, and it runs faster than xp sp2 ever did. I believe 980mb is ok on a new computer. Think about it. XP pro uses about 220-250mb ram on a 512mb machine, thats about 50% of the ram. Ok, new (OEM) computers come with anywhere from 2, 4, or even 6gb of ram, ok? So 980mb on a 2gb computer is about 50%, same as xp would use on a 512mb machine which is what most OEM machines had when xp first came out, now 980mb of a 4GB (what I run,) is about 25% (mine actually uses about 22%), on a 6GB computer is 16% of the ram. It uses about the same percentage of ram as xp did, but new technologies, advancements and standards in the specifications of computers allows windows to be a bigger operating system and it needs more resources. I bet you money that people with pent 3's with 128mb of ram were complaining of the same thing when they upgraded them to xp.

You missed the point.

To make Vista perform as good (or faster) than XP you -have- to invest in more hardware. It's deliberate and it's and endless loop. It is designed to empty you pockets.

If MS gave a rats ass about their customers then they would work on fixing the problems that have been inherent in Windows since the beginning.
They don't. They carry them into the next OS.
A great example is Internet Explorer.
There has NEVER BEEN a version of IE that was W3C compliant.

MS would rather sell you yet another flawed OS that fix the problems in the one(s) they already sold you.
- They get more of your money that way.
- They do it on purpose.
- That is not an honorable business practice.
That's what it's all about. (For me anyway.)

It uses about the same percentage of ram as xp did,

This is not true except for someone that has more far RAM in the system than they actually need.
-
You know the old thing in XP where: "I have 4Gb of RAM but Windows can only see(use) 3.25 to 3.5 Gb of it". XP is using aprox 500Mb for the system.
- 4Gb Physical - 0.5Gb for system - 3.5Gb Available to user.

I just worked on a 32-bit Vista laptop where it was like this.
- 4Gb Physical - 1.5Gb for system - 2.5Gb Available to user.

Yes, I know all about the address table thing. That's not the point.
-> Vista is using 3x as much RAM to get the same job done.
Vista is a resource pig. (With lipstick.)

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Don't confront your father, there's nothing good that comes from that.

I don't agree with that at all.

When you are right and can prove so it will show your father that you are a smart one and becoming an man. He should have more respect for you and your opinions both now and in the future. He should be proud of you for it.

I was serious when I said to print that out and show it to him.
How you approach him with it depends on how you two interact.
You aren't trying to put him down.
You are trying to show him that you know what you are talking about.

Recapping his PC was of course a joke.

.

[Kaine]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

I don't know about where you're from, but here, Electrical and Electronic engineers are very different and Electrical engineers wouldn't know a bloody scrap about capacitors or the operations of compared to an Electronic engineer. Even a lot of Electronic engineers are ignorant about the realities of cap selection and operation. They know how it all works on paper (1/2piFC, sin(wt+O) etc) but not why a solid polymer capacitor will last longer in the heat compared to a wet electrolytic. The closest we get to studying component failure is covering Transients. In my experience you only learn this stuff through direct experience or from those who have direct experience.

[Logistics]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Newbie2's Paps equates to one of "the math guys," in audio. I even know an engineer personally who thinks exactly as his father does. "If the cap is in spec, or rather it isn't broken, there shouldn't be any difference." But in the real world, there is no comparison to the sound of an electrolytic capacitor in a signal path vs. a film capacitor. It's just something you have to do yourself so you can understand.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

My father also believes that many of the pictures showing bad caps were made that way by the person who posted the image. He said that they could of took the caps out of the motherboard, applied reverse polarity voltage to kill them and make their vents bulge, put them back on the motherboard, and post a picture of Taiwanese crap caps.

That's a knee-slapper.

No offense Newbie2... it's just your dad reminds me of mine

[i4004]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

mhm..newbie's dad loves conspiracy theories too, right?
<wink>

[shadow]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

My father also believes that many of the pictures showing bad caps were made that way by the person who posted the image. He said that they could of took the caps out of the motherboard, applied reverse polarity voltage to kill them and make their vents bulge, put them back on the motherboard, and post a picture of Taiwanese crap caps.

In my experience, when I accidentally reversed the polarity of a capacitor for a circuit that I made. The cap did not just vent and spew its guts. It essentially blew up and the aluminium case shot up (it also hit me )and all the insides made a mess everywhere over the circuit board.

[i4004]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

i remember smoke...and the shooooosh and the wooosh...
i didin't reverse it, but trafo was (internally) shorted and ac was coming to that cap...

[larrymoencurly]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

I even know an engineer personally who thinks exactly as his father does. "If the cap is in spec, or rather it isn't broken, there shouldn't be any difference." But in the real world, there is no comparison to the sound of an electrolytic capacitor in a signal path vs. a film capacitor. It's just something you have to do yourself so you can understand.

I thought engineers proved, analytically and experimentally, that different types of capacitors sounded different, and they could largely explain why:

[PCBONEZ]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

In my experience, when I accidentally reversed the polarity of a capacitor for a circuit that I made. The cap did not just vent and spew its guts. It essentially blew up and the aluminium case shot up (it also hit me )and all the insides made a mess everywhere over the circuit board.

Be careful. - You'll put an eye out with that.

[shadow]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Be careful. - You'll put an eye out with that.

I know...I almost did!
I was pretty sure that the cap was put in the right way. However I did not do a circuit trace to make sure that it was. When it popped, I traced the circuit and instantly found out that I put the cap in reverse.

Since I was making three-four identical circuits, I made sure that this would not happen with any of the others!

[Shodan486]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Guys!!! I'm running my VP6 at 166FSB stable (besides the VGA, which can't handle the 83MHz bus for too long, getting strange rectangle effects and DXg/ nvidia display drv faildowns + sometimes monitor power off), with PIII from 1GHz at approx. 1250MHz with Taepo lytics. What's so impressive of that 150mhz, I even read somewhere people getting it stable with the original Jackass caps at 157mhz? Besides that I like the polymod, definitely worth using poly caps on it.

[Pyr0Beast]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Set the AGP mode to normal (1x), if that helps.

Polymer caps do work, however I have observed some strange waveforms on cpu VRM's output. Replaced the 1500uF taepo? caps with 1000uF Nichicon PLF.
Calculating from the choke's inductance and previous capacitors' values, I got that they rely more on bulk capacitance than low esr. When I added some 2200uF Pannys that waveform went away. So did the weird lag in Win2k. Keyboard worked, mouse didn't after a while, however, system was working without an error.

[Shodan486]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Got 170Mhz STABLE, no weird stuff! Just added some heatsinks on the Vcore MOSFETs and the lower 3.3V MOSFETs too... still can't hold up with 173,5 without having it under extreme cold circumstances

[PCBONEZ]

Re: abit vp6 poly mod

Set the AGP mode to normal (1x), if that helps.

Polymer caps do work, however I have observed some strange waveforms on cpu VRM's output. Replaced the 1500uF taepo? caps with 1000uF Nichicon PLF.
Calculating from the choke's inductance and previous capacitors' values, I got that they rely more on bulk capacitance than low esr. When I added some 2200uF Pannys that waveform went away. So did the weird lag in Win2k. Keyboard worked, mouse didn't after a while, however, system was working without an error.

Strange waveforms where?
VRM high [PSU] side or Vcore side?

Doing the math with the coils at SMPS noise frequency isn't so simple as what one learns 'in school' or where ever.
ESR and Xc act as parallel resistors in each cap [and each group of parallel caps ] to result in the total reactance.
ESR gets smaller [less ohms] when frequency goes down and Xc gets larger.
[Ball parking, and depending on the specific caps involved.] Somewhere between 100kHz and 800kHz the curves for ESR vs frequency and Xc vs frequency cross meaning that at that frequency Xc = ESR.
- Since SMPS noise is around 100-400kHz and ESR and Xc are 'significantly sharing' the total reactance in that frequency range you need to use the ohms values for both Xc and ESR as parallel 'resistors' in the equation. [And it all changes when the noise frequency does so changing the PSU to one with a different noise freq means re-doing all the math.]
.
On mobos the uF & ESR values as original are selected to accommodate the expected range of ripple in 'off the shelf' PSUs available at the time the mobo is built. If you deviate from the original values [too far] then you can end up having a mobo that works great with some PSUs but that is unstable with others.
- Just to complicate things:
PSU builders have been 'upping' the switching frequency to get more power in less space and with less heat. A side effect of that is the Ripple Noise frequency is also 'upped'. So, there may already be 'off the shelf' PSUs that don't work well with some older motherboards.
.