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Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

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    Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

    http://www.news.com.au/business/stor...-31037,00.html

    I think it has something to do with overheating (inadequately rated heatsink compound) - I've heard about some models having the Nichicon HM/HN series, which there were bad batches of them.
    Thanks to everyone on various forums for sharing this problem with each other!
    My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.

    #2
    Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

    Yeah Japlytic the net is a powerful force
    It allows users to share problems that may other wise be palmed off and users charged for something that is not their fault.

    Helps keep companies honest in this regard.

    I know that some companies will do the right thing regardless but there have been a few that would not acknowledge a production problem.

    These are the ones liable to end up with a class action brought against them.

    Its ashame about this with the Xbox for users thought

    I know at times thing happen in production that are just unforeseen but
    Sometimes I think bean counters cost companies more then they ever save them...
    I'd almost bet its someone trying to save a few pennies on the compound that caused this and the other problems.

    just my thoughts on it.....Guess Xbox owners will be happy to hear this news
    You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

      Unfortunately most of the 360 failures are due to what gamers like me call the red ring of death.

      The xbox ring of light around the power button has 4 segments when 3 of those segments flash in red it signifies an error general hardware failure.

      More specifically the solder on either the GPU or CPU cracks.

      The CPU and GPU on the 360 doesn't have a socket and are surface soldered there are circular traces on the bottom of the GPU and CPU and there are circular traces on the motherboard.

      Unfortunately the heating and cooling down cycles of the 360 caued the connections to break causing this error.

      There are a number of fixes that make me cringe like clamping down the CPU and GPU against the board hard (using the heat sink X clamp) then allowing the CPU and GPU to overheat which causes the solder to remelt but its not 100% guaranteed.

      A german lab analyzed the 360 failures and claimed that the problem was the wrong type of Lead Free Solder (ROHS strikes again) and that after the heating and cooling down cycles caused the aforementioned problems.
      Last edited by Krankshaft; 02-11-2008, 08:45 AM.
      Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

        humm is that the ball solder method? (BGA) or whatever they call it Krankshaft

        http://www.ibl-loettechnik.de/englis...soldering.html

        I would have thought there was someway to reflow these professionally

        I vaguely remember Gigabye in aust had some $40,000 rework machine for chipsets that were bga

        something like this

        http://www.etech-web.com/bga_rework_services.htm

        anyway yeah someone stuffed up didn't they if it was the wrong type of solder.

        good thing 1 bn is like pocket change to them

        Anyway at lest they acepted responsibility for it
        (or there probably would have been a class action brought against them)

        thanks for the info Krankshaft

        Cheers
        Last edited by starfury1; 02-11-2008, 10:06 AM.
        You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

          Yep its BGA I forgot what it was called.

          I always replace the cheap white heatsink compound on my consoles with Arctic Silver its not cheap but it works. I haven't had a console with a cracked joint yet hopefully it stays that way.

          I seem to remember the original xbox which had a BGA CPU too have this problem with its BGA N-Vidia MCPX (Media Communications Processor) chip however it wasn't nearly as widespread. They never took responsibility for that one.

          I remember sites offering peel and stick heat sinks for this chip probably to prevent overheating and solder joint failure.

          Thats MS if not enough people come banging at your door complaining hide under the table and turn off the lights .

          I had no idea that companies offered a reflow service thanks for the link.

          I'm sure with the deep pockets Microsoft has its probably cheaper for them to send the broken units to the landfill though such a shame.
          Last edited by Krankshaft; 02-12-2008, 10:49 AM.
          Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

            On a related note check this page out it has a real close up picture from a microscope of the solder balls on improperly flowed BGA chip.

            http://www.olympusmicroimaging.com/i...212/parentid/2

            I wish I had that microscope I could probably see my skin cells with it .
            Last edited by Krankshaft; 02-12-2008, 11:17 AM.
            Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

              I don't play modern game systems, so this doesn't really affect me personally. But I wish manufacturers would keep using properly leaded solder on boards destined for countries that don't require lead-free. In Microsoft's case, they could charge a higher price for RoHS compliant systems to compensate for the warranty expenses, and let everyone else pay slightly less for a more reliable machine.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Microsoft plans $1bn charge for Xbox repairs

                I'm sure with the deep pockets Microsoft has its probably cheaper for them to send the broken units to the landfill though such a shame.
                That was my thought and yeah its probably more expedient to do it that way.
                (very wasteful thought as you say)

                yeah they can, that was my understanding..it can be done....but haven't a clue on how much it would cost (the machines are in no way cheap)

                yeah better heatsink compound is always a good idea
                (used correctly of course)

                Trouble is Gdement it would probably cost them a lot as the lead free from what I read cannot be contaminated with lead it will result in a bad joint
                so they would need to separate production lines I guess

                I am not 100% sure on this ??????
                (and could be totally wrong! as I haven't checked this, maybe someone else here knows one way or the other for sure)
                but the leads of components and contacts probably do contain small amount lead
                (pre RoHs) which possibly partly why the RoHs component change over
                (and for other banned stuff)

                Cheers
                You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

                Comment

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