Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Electronics Theory and Troubleshooting > General Electronics Technical Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-01-2012, 08:34 AM   #21
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,101
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Why would an energy company subsidise something that causes a reduction in energy usage?
1.) As mentioned, building new generating capacity is very expensive;

2.) Adding to the power distribution infrastructure is also very expensive.

Both of those assume that electricity usage is increasing rather than static or decreasing. That is the case in most of the world. And both assume that generation and distribution are being run close to full capacity, which is often the case (California, where I live, "imports" electricity from neighboring states, and various government regulations make adding distribution capacity difficult, slow and expensive).

Putting it simply, electric utilities have significant economic incentive, under current conditions, to encourage energy conservation, even without the government programs that force utilities to subsidize things like CFLs, and uneconomic boondoggles like wind and solar power.
__________________
PeteS in CA
Republican Operative discussion forums

Where might is right
There is no right.
- Sophocles in "Antigone"
****************************
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
- J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring
****************************
To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 04:48 AM   #22
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

had a cheapie at the shop start singing and flickering yesterday.tried to open it up but broke the tube.its 2 months old and the lytic read 17 ohms esr.
the board is brown around the transistors.i expect the others to die soon.
i cannot take flicker or buzzing/squeeling so they will come out as soon as they start.
if i hadnt broke it the other may have been ok with a new cap.
the original is an aishi.
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 05:45 AM   #23
ben7
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240v-120v 60Hz 200A service drop
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 3,067
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

My dad recently got a cheapie one too, and put it in, it takes like 4-5 seconds to start up, and it buzzes quite a lot. Its very dim at startup too. I wonder what quality parts are in this one...

Have any pics?

PS - use a small saw to cut open the plastic base, instead of trying to pry it open.

-Ben
__________________
Hi-pot test: FAIL
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:46 AM   #24
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

mine is a k-lite.
the other one in the fixture had a hard time starting this morning.
got frost last night and we shut down the furnace for the season.about 60f in here.
high esr cap most likely.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2012-04-06_10-47-47_214.jpg (259.0 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg 2012-04-06_10-48-01_510.jpg (276.7 KB, 45 views)

Last edited by kc8adu; 04-06-2012 at 08:53 AM..
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 02:10 PM   #25
Rulycat
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
City & State: North England
My Country: United Kingdom
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 631
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Still have a 20w Philips bulb going strong after 7 years maybe? It's actually made in Germany! Newer ones are made in China.
Rulycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 04:33 PM   #26
ben7
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240v-120v 60Hz 200A service drop
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 3,067
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

kc8adu:
LOL, does that thing even have a fuse?

Rulycat:
does it buzz/hum? if so, then it probably has a magnetic ballast. Those magnetic ballast ones usually last quite a long time, much longer than electronic ballasts.

-Ben
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 04:42 PM   #27
Rulycat
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
City & State: North England
My Country: United Kingdom
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 631
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben7 View Post
kc8adu:
LOL, does that thing even have a fuse?

Rulycat:
does it buzz/hum? if so, then it probably has a magnetic ballast. Those magnetic ballast ones usually last quite a long time, much longer than electronic ballasts.

-Ben
Silent as far as I can tell, the ballast is much larger than the socket and the tubes themselves, perhaps they simply overspeced it in the good ol' days.
Rulycat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 07:27 PM   #28
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

fuse resistor in shrink tube in power lead.
have a ton of rubycon ssp? 33@250v on hand so i tried one in the one i got apart.
it worked fine.not enough room for it but it proved the cap is the problem.the second ones cap was 15ohm esr.
junk cfl like these set folks against them all after this sort of failure.
methinks these 2 shop bathrooms are going to get old 3' preheat fluorescents in place of these cheesey 3 bulb fixtures.
thats the only reason we used cfl's.
i am finding most are pure junk.
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 07:34 PM   #29
b700029
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 641
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Aishi CD11GE datasheet:
http://www.aihuaglobal.com/admin/Pro...4484799582.pdf

Specified life 12,000 hours
b700029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:36 PM   #30
japlytic
Badcaps Veteran
 
japlytic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
City & State: Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia
My Country: Australia
Line Voltage: 240VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteS in CA View Post
1.) As mentioned, building new generating capacity is very expensive;

2.) Adding to the power distribution infrastructure is also very expensive.

Both of those assume that electricity usage is increasing rather than static or decreasing. That is the case in most of the world. And both assume that generation and distribution are being run close to full capacity, which is often the case (California, where I live, "imports" electricity from neighboring states, and various government regulations make adding distribution capacity difficult, slow and expensive).

Putting it simply, electric utilities have significant economic incentive, under current conditions, to encourage energy conservation, even without the government programs that force utilities to subsidize things like CFLs, and uneconomic boondoggles like wind and solar power.
Why subsidise energy saving devices that are of poor quality?
I still think there should be legislation covering quality (and warranties) of energy saving devices; a name I thought of would be the Energy Saving Lamp Quality Act which covers all energy saving lamps.
__________________
My first choice in quality Japanese electrolytics is Nippon Chemi-Con, which has been in business since 1931... the quality of electronics is dependent on the quality of the electrolytics.
japlytic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:53 PM   #31
RJARRRPCGP
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
City & State: Springfield, Vermont
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 122-125V 61-62.5 Hz 100A
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 2,160
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8adu View Post
fuse resistor in shrink tube in power lead.
have a ton of rubycon ssp? 33@250v on hand so i tried one in the one i got apart.
it worked fine.not enough room for it but it proved the cap is the problem.the second ones cap was 15ohm esr.
junk cfl like these set folks against them all after this sort of failure.
methinks these 2 shop bathrooms are going to get old 3' preheat fluorescents in place of these cheesey 3 bulb fixtures.
thats the only reason we used cfl's.
i am finding most are pure junk.
I saw a failed CFL at a Chinese restaurant in Claremont, NH. lol.
(the Imperial buffet next to Walmart)

And it looks like the CFL that gets installed there keeps failing at the same spot.
__________________
Asus Maximus II Gene

Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 3.3 Ghz (367x9.0)

5 GB of DDR 2 SDRAM

FSB termination voltage @ 1.3 V

eVGA GeForce GT 640

Antec VP-450

Windows XP Pro x64 SP2

"There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

"Don't eat yellow snow!" -Salem

"did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 04-06-2012 at 09:57 PM..
RJARRRPCGP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 09:56 PM   #32
budm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
City & State: S.F. Bay area
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120V 60Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13,203
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

If you like to see the schematics of the CFL, go here:
http://www.pavouk.org/hw/lamp/en_ind...hilipsgenie11w
budm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 03:19 AM   #33
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

i guess i live in a odd place if i can use up 12000 hours in 3 months!
Quote:
Originally Posted by b700029 View Post
Aishi CD11GE datasheet:
http://www.aihuaglobal.com/admin/Pro...4484799582.pdf

Specified life 12,000 hours
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #34
ben7
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240v-120v 60Hz 200A service drop
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 3,067
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8adu View Post
i guess i live in a odd place if i can use up 12000 hours in 3 months!
Hahaha!

It says on the datasheet they can withstand up to 130deg C temps - there is no way I am believing that xD.

-Ben
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #35
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

well that room can get dammed hot after a healthy dose of homemade chili the night before.i guess if it can peel paint it could kill crap cfl's too.
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2012, 01:35 PM   #36
PeteS in CA
Badcaps Veteran
 
PeteS in CA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
City & State: San Jose, CA
My Country: USA, Unsure of Planet
Line Voltage: 120VAC, 60Hz & 115VAC, 400Hz
I'm a: Professional Tech
Posts: 2,101
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Why subsidise energy saving devices that are of poor quality?
It's a feel-good symbol, and actual performance is incidental. If the @#$%y quality is noticed, the politicians can just blame the universal bogeyman, Big Business. Subsidizing @#$% gets many people POed. If government does it directly, those people get POed at the politicians who imposed it. If government forces utilities to do it, with the extra cost passed on to consumers, many won't notice the extra charge, and many who do will get POed at the utility company rather than the pols who played this subsidy shell game.

Last edited by PeteS in CA; 04-08-2012 at 01:38 PM..
PeteS in CA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 07:58 PM   #37
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

like the tv converter box fiasco.
most were total shit.only reason there was such a program was the folks who would have just stopped watching tv rather than buy anything.would have cut deep into tv network proffits.
lots of folks could have spent $40-$80 much more wisely than on some junky box.
btw back on the cfl thing.
the only thing green about this "green" movement is the flow of cash!
the things have to sell on their qualities rather than force.
i would rather use 60+ year old preheat fluorescents with high quality high cri tubes than these trashcan fillers.
and i loaded up on cases of tubes that were being banned to have a lifetime supply.
lots of older ge and sylvania f96t12/850 on hand here.old enough to be full mercury.
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 08:11 PM   #38
ben7
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
City & State: Trenton, NJ
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 240v-120v 60Hz 200A service drop
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 3,067
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8adu View Post
like the tv converter box fiasco.
most were total shit.only reason there was such a program was the folks who would have just stopped watching tv rather than buy anything.would have cut deep into tv network proffits.
lots of folks could have spent $40-$80 much more wisely than on some junky box.
btw back on the cfl thing.
the only thing green about this "green" movement is the flow of cash!
the things have to sell on their qualities rather than force.
i would rather use 60+ year old preheat fluorescents with high quality high cri tubes than these trashcan fillers.
and i loaded up on cases of tubes that were being banned to have a lifetime supply.
lots of older ge and sylvania f96t12/850 on hand here.old enough to be full mercury.
Yeah, I know, its such a shame!

Your right, its all about the cash, people are more worried about cash than their own health and/or safety and/or happiness.

Its so funny but worrying too; people pay for the cheapest CFLs, so they end up with CFLs that don't last long, and have poor light color. Yet they complain about it!


There are a lot of ignorant people in this world.

-Ben
ben7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2012, 09:20 PM   #39
dmill89
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
City & State: Harrisburg, PA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60Hz
Posts: 464
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben7 View Post

Its so funny but worrying too; people pay for the cheapest CFLs, so they end up with CFLs that don't last long, and have poor light color. Yet they complain about it!


There are a lot of ignorant people in this world.

-Ben
I used to sell electronics at a major retail store and saw this all the time. For example the cheapest DVD player we had was a store brand piece of crap made by some Chinese company I've never heard of. These had an extremely high failure rate and eventually got recalled for being a fire hazard (wiring gauge too thin). We sold a Sony unit that was much better for only $5 more and I tried to steer everyone toward that unit, however ~70-80% of people still bought the store brand unit since it was a little cheaper, and then complained when it failed a month after the 90 day warranty expired. I wanted to say "I told you so" to them, but of course you can't do that when working retail (at least if you want to keep your job).

People buy cheap crap and then wonder why it doesn't last or perform to expectations, then they complain about it. The solution is simple: Stop Buying Cheap Crap, but it seems that much of the general population simply doesn't get it. This quest for the cheapest even harms those not buying cheap junk since it becomes progressively harder and more expensive to get good quality products when manufactures see that only price sells, and thus cut corners to lower their prices to compete.

Last edited by dmill89; 04-09-2012 at 09:27 PM..
dmill89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 08:40 AM   #40
kc8adu
Super Moderator
 
kc8adu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
City & State: dayton ohio
Posts: 7,183
Default Re: Cheap CFL teardown after failure

back to cfl's
got 4 more of those huge plant growing cfl's from my neighbor to fix.
replaced caps and they were ok.
left one in a test fixture.big 6m opening this morning.working a tx station when i noticed this light blinking on my voice peaks.yep rf sensitive!this was on 50.125. 100w ssb
kc8adu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:02 AM.


Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2014
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Did you find this forum helpful?