testing RF remote (re-posting)

[playman]

I had 2 post concerning my RF remote testing.
A admin took those 2 and merged them, now I cant find them and the admin's
link to the merged post's does not work, and is not replying my latest PM's
So i've decided to repost them. (from memory)

Here we go.

I have a RF remote controller to a fan, wich I belive is not working.
How should I test it?
I've tried using my radio, but I dont get any responses from it.

I did not find any schematics of it so i'll just let the pictures follow.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9705/pa270139.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1361/pa270138.jpg

[b700029]

I can't see the markings on the IC but from the pinout it looks like an HT12E:
http://www.ipic.co.jp/Pdffiles/ht12e.pdf

You won't be able to test the operation without a scope, although a DMM might work for basic checks (i.e. is there a signal coming out). A new HT12E is only ~$1 anyway.

[playman]

yes it's HT-12E
and below it says
A407G0351-2

Do you know how I should test it?
what's the procidure and methood?

[b700029]

You need an oscilloscope to test it properly.

A quick check to see if there is signal coming out can be done with a DMM.

It may be easier to just change the IC.

[Toasty]

I'd be more suspect of the internal fan control circuit as it's susceptible to line voltage surges or power supply failures. This remote is a simple circuit without the complexity of even a crystal or crystal resonator that could fail from dropping it, or a power supply that can go over-voltage. Chip is rated for 12v.

If you're getting the 9V into the chip as indicated at pins 9 and 18 (pinout 3), and you can read any change in voltage at any other pin upon a key-press, the chip is most likely fine. I'd devote my attention to the fan internal control circuit.

My 2¢

Toast

[playman]

I checked the remote, and it seems be getting power every where, so i'm
going to asume it's working (for now)

but I forgot to mention one thing, might be a crucial thing.
the remote and the reciver are not integrated to the fan, meaning i can use the remote/recever on another equipment.

the light comes on when I plug the fan in, but I cant turn it off, there for it must be either the remote or the recever. right?

[playman]

allright i've done some researching, and I belive i've found the "right" thing.
http://www.fan-light.com/searchresult.php?keyword=jy199
on the PCB in the reciever it say's JY199
there are 2 that look like mine
JY199E and JY199E-1
on my reciver it say's that its operating @ 433.9MHz (not 2**.*MHz as I thought before)

I'll throw in some pictures tomorrow.

[Toasty]

Ummm... IIRC you said this was working before. That's not possible given the receiver is 433.9MHz and the transmitter (again IIRC - JY121D) is sending at 299.6MHz.

http://www.fan-light.com/product.php?id=50

What you have is a FAN receiver and a LIGHT transmitter.

Toast

EDIT: They offer various controls in 3 frequencies: 299.6MHz, 304MHz, and 433.9MHz. You -must- match apples to apples for these to work.

.

[playman]

Originally Posted by Toasty

What you have is a FAN receiver and a LIGHT transmitter.

erm.... the remote is of the fan, to controll both light on/off and the speed of the fan.

Originally Posted by Toasty

EDIT: They offer various controls in 3 frequencies: 299.6MHz, 304MHz, and 433.9MHz. You -must- match apples to apples for these to work.

.

this fan remote and reciver came from the same home and were working to gather, IIRC I think I just posted the romte link to show how the remote looked like so maybe it's not running at 299.6MHz but on 433.9MHz

sorry for the Confusion

[Toasty]

??

What are the model numbers of each unit?

[playman]

All I know atm is
Remote: JY121D
Reciver: JY199

Other then that I dont know, I can try to search better tomorrow if this is not usable, as
I dont have the units here.

[Toasty]

By their website, the 2 devices are on different frequencies as I mentioned before.

I still believe, that if it was working (you saw this run correctly, yes?), then the problem is most likely in the receiver.

[playman]

Originally Posted by Toasty

By their website, the 2 devices are on different frequencies as I mentioned before.

I just took a better look at the equipment, inside the remote is the same sticker
as on the reciever, both are 433.9MHz

Originally Posted by Toasty

I still believe, that if it was working (you saw this run correctly, yes?), then the problem is most likely in the receiver.

unfortunedly I did not see it running/working, it was just given to us becouse one
of the spades was broken.

and here are the images of the reciever
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/5445/pa310161.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4553/pa310163.jpg

One thing I noticest on the PCB was some white residue, is that something to concern about?

[Toasty]

Pictures are a bit too dark and small to really make anything out clearly, but thanks for what you provided. The residue looks to be flux from soldering.

An end or some side shots so we can see what other components are on the daughterboard. What is under the metal heatsink? What components are under the 2 large yellow caps?

Please upload pictures directly to the forum. Use the Go Advanced button under the Quick Reply then choose the Manage Attachments button. You can upload direct from your computer or from a URL. Pictures hosted on external sites may "go away" for various reasons and then the info is lost here for the next person with a similar problem.

From what you have provided, nothing stands out as a problem. No darkened areas on the board or burned traces. FYI - a bulb that fails by shorting can take out the triac in the controller. I see this all the time in manual light dimmers.

By their pic:
(The 3 wire side)
Red is Hot to the Light
Brown is to fan Hot
Blue is Neutral for Both

The 2 wire side, I'm guessing, is Hot (Brown) and Neutral (Blue) to the unit. There is no picture of that anywhere. Please confirm.

By the foil side pic, the Blue (Neutral) is a straight thru feed from input to output.

I would start by "dry-testing" the components with a VOM and see what you can discover. Diodes or resistors open, varistor open, triac open, etc.

Does it do -anything- when power and components (fan/light) are hooked up. (e.g., the light or fan is on and can't be turned off)

Do the fan/light operate if you hook them direct? Do you have 220v mains power coming to it?

Toast

EDIT: I cropped, re-sized, sharpened, and brightened your pics and attached your pics from Imageshack.

.

[playman]

Originally Posted by Toasty

Pictures are a bit too dark and small to really make anything out clearly, but thanks for what you provided. The residue looks to be flux from soldering.

yea sorry about that, I'm a terrible photographer but small? they were 12MP pictures, maybe imageshack had lowered them.

An end or some side shots so we can see what other components are on the daughterboard. What is under the metal heatsink? What components are under the 2 large yellow caps?

there are some resistors under it, I can take the yellow caps out if you want to see under them.

From what you have provided, nothing stands out as a problem. No darkened areas on the board or burned traces. FYI - a bulb that fails by shorting can take out the triac in the controller. I see this all the time in manual light dimmers.

the board looks quite nice, besides the white residue. but the funny thing is
the light was working (was not able to turn it off though) and now it's not.

The 2 wire side, I'm guessing, is Hot (Brown) and Neutral (Blue) to the unit. There is no picture of that anywhere. Please confirm.

The 3 wires (Brown/Blue/Red) go to the fan
The 2 wires (brown/Blue) go to the ceiling/wallsocket

By the foil side pic, the Blue (Neutral) is a straight thru feed from input to output.

Thats correct, and by the looks of it, there seem to be also resistors connect to the line.

I would start by "dry-testing" the components with a VOM and see what you can discover. Diodes or resistors open, varistor open, triac open, etc.

what do you mean by "dry testing"? and i'm unfamiliar with the term VOM.

Does it do -anything- when power and components (fan/light) are hooked up. (e.g., the light or fan is on and can't be turned off)

I tested again and the light came on again when I plugged it in, but I was not
able to use the remote to turn it off.

Do the fan/light operate if you hook them direct? Do you have 220v mains power coming to it?

to be honest I havent had the guts to directly connecting it, I have no
idea what that could do.
Yes I have it connected to 220V

Toast

EDIT: I cropped, re-sized, sharpened, and brightened your pics and attached your pics from Imageshack.

thank you for that, I hope the pictures I took now are better now

[Toasty]

Dry testing means un-powered testing of the components using a VOM (Volt-Ohm Meter) aka. DMM.

Excellent job on the 2nd go-round of pics!

If the light is staying on, that makes me suspect the triac. It's likely shorted and staying on. The Red output is directly wired to the triac in the center.

Triac4 (heatsink) is the fan control device and feeds power thru the toroid coil to the Brown output.

The U2(?) device should be checked. It appears to be a voltage regulator and probably is the supply voltage regulator for the main IC chip. Again, with power applied, you'll need to test the supply voltage to the IC and see if it exists and is correct. Some datasheet browsing for the IC and the U2 device numbers will provide clues.

Resistors under those 2 yellow caps should be tested to see if they are in spec. as they supply power to the U2 device.

The flux residue should easily clean up with some isopropyl alcohol or methanol.

Please use caution when testing this with mains power applied. Remember the "1 hand in your back pocket" rule so you do not place yourself across the power line. ALL parts of this are to be considered HOT with respect to earth ground. There is no isolation from the mains.

Toast

.

[playman]

how should I check the triac?
I tried to check it with the Ohm, and got zero readings on pin 1 and 2, the gate gave me quick contact then 0. it was the triac4

The U2, is that the secondary small PCB on the large one?

[Toasty]

U2 was a U2(?) so that means I can't be sure of it's designation. It looks like a TO-92 style transistor down by the incoming power next to (again) C10(?) and (again) L1(?)

[playman]

I belive that this is the U2(?)
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe...NGS/79L05.html
and this should be the IC
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datashe.../MDT10P10.html

was the triac ok?
How should I check them?
you know of some guide for newbies maybe?

[Toasty]

Google for triac testing. Test all 4. Can you report their numbers please?

U2 is a -5v regulator. You should see that measuring from the Common leg to the Output leg. If you have a VOM and not a DMM, put the Red/Positive(+) lead on the Common leg and the Black/Negative(-) on the Output leg.