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    Antec truepower psu's

    i have 3 antec truepower psu's here that I'm working on re-capping. I fixed a monitor last week that kind of got me in the mood. My budget is tight, and I have the time, so i figure spending 20-30$ rather than spending 150$~ on replacing 3 psu's isn't a bad idea, gives me something to do too.

    I have a thread on another forum, its easier to just link, but this might give you guys an idea of what I have going on here. to be honest, I'm kind of disapointed with Antec now, though I've had these for quite some time, and they have treated me well, but I don't think I'll buy antec anymore.

    here's the other thread anyhow
    http://forum.pcstats.com/showthread.php?t=72170

    and now my main question really is about the 480w Truepower that I have, I'm sure its 5years old, and its only giving me grief now, which isn't too bad. But basically, I can't find any 10mm 4700uf / 10v caps, only 12mm. I'm sure I could squeeze one, maybe two 12mm caps in there, but I'm not sure about all 4. So I was wondering about maybe using some 3300uf caps.

    But I'm not sure how that would affect the psu's overall capabilities, I'm sure it may not handle as high an output overall, but I'm only using it in an old athlon 1.2 with a geforce3, and when it does get swapped around into something else, its nothing more than an old P3, P2, K6 even, so it doesn't really need to do much. Besides, its not an ATX2.0 compliant, so I can't really use it on anything newer anyway

    now this stuff I somewhat new to me too, so I don't really know too much about what I'm doing, other than so far its working out ok. I have a friend who knows a little more, the main advice he gave me to to look for gold rated caps. I called the local shops around, they only have cheaper generic stuff for the most part, so its looking like I'll be buy from badcaps, there seems to be a pretty good user base here that puts faith in them, so I'm going to give it a go and order everything here
    Last edited by ssl6; 11-23-2009, 01:27 PM.

    #2
    Re: Antec truepower psu's

    Hi and Welcome to Badcaps!
    You will not find 10mm 4700uF caps from reputable brands simply because they are impossible to manufacture

    You can find 3300uF in 100mm can size tho, but even these are rare
    But it is no problem to replace with 3300uF in this case, because those Fuckhjuus are not 4700uF even when they are new anyway!

    You can buy here from the site owner TopCat or from Big Pope if you want, it is up to you
    There are also many online stores that sells caps

    What you need is LOW-ESR caps, anything else will not do, and they need to be rated for 105°C, you can decrease the voltage, but need to be careful in doing so, for example in a powersupply you will only find 12v, 5v and 3.3v
    Therefore a 10v cap is sitting on either 3.3v or 5v so it i safe to replace with a 6.3v cap

    I would recommend the Samxon RS cap for powersupply use, they have a very long rated life at 7000H and still good ESR, the GT is also good but slightly worse ESR, however lift increases to 10000H

    http://www.capsmod.net/caps/
    "The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Antec truepower psu's

      I think he meant 10mm there where he said 100mm. [That would be a really BIG cap.]

      Restating partly.
      The two problems are.
      4700uF 10v in 10mm
      3300uF 16v in 10mm

      The 4700uF 10v in 10mm
      First these are used on +5v and +3.3v so using 6.3v caps is just fine.
      Second one of the senior people here pulled some 4700uF Fuhjyyu 10v out of a new PSU and measurerd their uF. It was only 3100uF. The 4700uF label is bogus.
      - Any 3300uF 6.3v[up] with low enough ESR is fine there.
      - The 'stock' Ripple and ESR is probably 1580[Ripple] and 0.038[ESR]
      - More Ripple is better, less ESR is better.
      - I like to use Samxon RS 3300uF in 10v or 16v. [They sell those here.]

      The 3300uF 16v in 10mm
      These are on +12v so you are stuck using 16v caps here.
      3300uF 16v caps in 10mm are rare.
      - I like to use Samxon RS 3300uF in 16v.
      - Some people have managed to squeeze in 12.5mm caps there but it ain't easy.

      The rest of the caps are easy enough to find replacements for.
      .
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

      -
      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

      - Dr Seuss
      -
      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
      -

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Antec truepower psu's

        Thanks for the welcome guys.

        so the 4700's aren't really 4700's? thats fine then as long as I can use the 3300's like I was thinking, I thought of it after comparing the two truepower 2.0's, and the older Truepower, and the older one being the only one with 4700uf caps there. Either way, I thought the 3300's would be safe, but it was more of a guess on my part, though so far my guessing has been working out.

        so since both of you seem to recommend the Samxon RS series, I'll try to pick those before anything else, and then stick to Samxon, and then rubycon? as long as they're listed in the specs matching my needs. I had a shopping cart full of rubycon's earlier

        but here's my list or what I need, for what, and the replacment I'm considering, I think I'm set, but while I'm here I may as well get some input before making the sale final

        for the Antec Truepower 480w
        4x 4700uf 10v to be replaced with Samxon RS 3300uf 10v
        2x 3300uf 16v to be replaced with Samxon RS 3300uf 16v

        The antec truepower 380w 2.0
        4x 3300uf 10v to be replaced with Samxon RS 3300uf 10v
        2x 3300uf 16v to be replaced with Samxon RS 3300uf 16v
        1x 470uf 25v to be replaced with Samxon GT 470uf 25v
        1x 1000uf 10v to be replaced with Rubycon MCZ 8mm 1000uf 10v

        and for the msi board that i need caps for as well
        10x 1000uf 6.3v to be replaced with Samxon GC 1000uf 6.3v
        3x 1500ur 6.3v to be replaced with Samxon GC 1500uf 6.3v

        anything wrong with that list? I may grab some extra's actually, to keep around, never know. I may rip my OCZ powerstream open to see i there's anything i should replace in it, Its been around for a while, still working amazingly though, so at the same time, I'd be scared to find something wrong inside it

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Antec truepower psu's

          You need to replace all the Fuhjyyu in the Antecs at least down to 6mm diameter if you want them to last.
          Personally I replace all the Fuhjyyu. They are THAT bad.

          My list for the TP2-550's I did looks like this:
          [4] 4700uF 10v 10mm Fuhjyyu - TM , 1580 / .038
          - RS 3300/10v
          [2] 3300uf 16v 10mm Fuhjyyu - TM , 1580 / .024
          - RS 3300/16v
          [2] 1000uF 10v 8mm Fuhjyyu - TN , 500 / ??? [+5vsb]
          - Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW
          [1] 470uf 25v 8mm Fuhjyyu - TN , 370 / ???
          - Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW
          [1] 47uF 35v 6.3mm Koshin-KRM or Fuhjyyu-TN , 110/ ???
          - Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW [I use a 50v cap]
          [1] 220uF 16v 6.3mm
          - Chemicon LXZ
          [2] 22uF 50V 105c 5mm
          - Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW
          [1] 10uF 50V 105c 5mm
          - Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW
          [1] 1uF 50V 105c 5mm
          - Panasonic FC or Nichicon PW

          LXZ, FC, and PW are better grades [for ESR/Ripple] than the old Fuhjyyu caps.
          They can be found at digikey.com
          Chemicon KY, Nichicon HE, and Panasonic FM are better that LXZ, FC, PW so if something is out of stock upgrade. [Oddly FM is the best grade at digikey and are sometimes cheapest if you are buying in 10pc+ quanities.]
          The 220uF 16v 6.3mm LXZ is the only low ESR 220uF 16v I've found available in 6.3mm [the others being 8mm] and it's a very common cap so extras won't hurt if you do a lot of re-capping. They show up on mobos. PSU's and LCD screens. I go through 100's of those.
          Many PSU's have that 47uF 6.3mm and some are 50v so I just buy the 50v to be covered for all of them.
          .
          Mann-Made Global Warming.
          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

          -
          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

          - Dr Seuss
          -
          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
          -

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Antec truepower psu's

            hmm, as much as I would like to replace them all, the budget is somewhat tight at the moment, so I'm really just looking to replace what needs replacing at the moment.

            one thing I'm wondering though, replacing the 10v caps with 6.3v, would they not take a little more strain inside the psu? being such a tight spot, little airflow to keep them cool? I can see how the motherboard may benefit, the mosfets not having to work as hard, maybe run cooler, which may help bring down ambient temps in a more compact case? i was talking to my friend about this idea earlier, it seems to kind of work both ways the way we were thinking about it

            any more info on pro's and con's for that? maybe a better explaination? or is this something thats been discussed before?

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Antec truepower psu's

              ssl6 the green caps in the secondary outputs that survived what brand are they?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Antec truepower psu's

                the green caps? i'm honestly not sure.....I had a really hard time reading the gold writing on them, couldn't get the light angle right to read the brand marking, that or my eye sight is just that bad. it'll be tough to check them now since the 550w antec they're are in is back together in the wifes machine working well....for how long though, i'm not sure

                now its just the 480w and 380w that need fixing, though the 380w got some components from the 480w so i can at least use it for now until i get new caps in. then there's the msi board, and......i just opened my OCZ powerstream....it needs caps for the 5v and 3.3v rail, same caps as the other antec's that are blown, however its in about the same shape as the 380w was, the caps for the 5v and 3.3 are just starting to go, and the 12v rail caps are good, but they're those cheap fuhyy~~~ caps, so i'll change them anyway

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Antec truepower psu's

                  Originally posted by ssl6
                  hmm, as much as I would like to replace them all, the budget is somewhat tight at the moment, so I'm really just looking to replace what needs replacing at the moment.
                  I would shelve it until you can afford to do it right.
                  A half done job could leave you with a dead motherboard more sooner than later and that won't save you anything.

                  Originally posted by ssl6
                  one thing I'm wondering though, replacing the 10v caps with 6.3v, would they not take a little more strain inside the psu?
                  Nope, not at all.
                  The volts rating on the cap only affects the cap, not the circuit it's in.
                  Using 10v caps were a 6.3v could go is a cheap way to get lower ESR without using better grade/quality caps. [They use the 10v to cheap-out on the parts.]
                  - You can only do this 10v->6.3v swap if you -KNOW- the voltage in the circuit is less than 6.3v. On motherboards and in PSU output filters the only voltages present are 3.3v, 5v, and 12v. Since it's a 10v cap you know it's not on 12v, which means it's on 3.3v or 5v,, and a 6.3v cap is fine for either one. [5v is <80% of 6.3v. That's a good margin.]
                  - In any other device or circuit [including other areas in the PSU] you need to check the voltage with a meter to verify going to a lower voltage cap is okay. Remeber some circuits turn on-off others so you have to check the voltage in all circuit conditions.

                  Originally posted by ssl6
                  I can see how the motherboard may benefit, the mosfets not having to work as hard, maybe run cooler
                  A caps voltage rating won't affect MOSFETs at all.
                  - It's ESR will though.

                  Originally posted by ssl6
                  or is this something thats been discussed before?
                  Only 7000 times. hahaha

                  _ Voltage rating - a LIMIT on THE CAP. - It is circuit voltage + ripple voltage.
                  Too much voltage for the cap and you'll get what amounts to arcing between the plates through the dielectric which will degrade it further.
                  It's based on how far the plates are apart, how thick the dielectric is, and how conductive the electrolyte is. [Lytic caps are actually 'formed' at the factory to 120% to 150% of the rated voltage and then derated to the voltage on the label. In other words the marked voltage already includes a margin for error. [You don't -have- to add another margin.] Runing the cap -Right AT- the voltage on the label is not 'pushing' any actual physical limits but it's not being conservative in design either.

                  _ ESR - "Equivalent Series Resistance" - The caps 'resistance' to passing ripple currents. [Usually measured at 100 kHz]. Filter caps pass the ripple to ground so less ESR means less noise is present [left] in the power to the various chips. [Including MOSFETs, chipsets, drive controller chips, CPUs, RAM, and every other chip.].
                  [ESR and Xc in a cap in effect behave like parallel resistors. The one with the smallest [ohm] value has the most significat effect on the circuit in passing noise to ground. - At low frequencies [like we see in PC electronics] ESR has a large effect and Xc almost none because it's value approaches infinite. As frequencies go up ESR and Xc reverse significance, ESR has almost no effect at higher freqs and Xc's effects become huge.]

                  _ Ripple Current - How much Ripple the cap can pass through it without overheating internally. It's in amps but you can -sort of- think of this one as similar to a watt rating on a resistor. Using a cap that handles more ripple is going heavier duty just as using a resistor with a higher watt rating. [In both cases the part can handle more amps. - U C ?]

                  _ Leakage - This doesn't come up around here because in the usual circuits discussed here all it really effects is efficiency and no one really gives a rats ass. It's effects are too small to care. - I guess it could be thought of as how much of your DC power -leaks- through the materials in the cap. It's negligable. I just thought I'd anser before you asked.
                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Antec truepower psu's

                    ok, so if i get a better 10v cap to replace the current 10v caps, would i not get lower ESR still than using better 6.3v caps? did i say that right?

                    maybe i'll try to put it in point form

                    -using generic-ish 10v caps where 6.3 cap would go = lower ESR
                    -using high grade 6.3v caps where 10v caps existed = still lower ESR
                    -using high grade 10v caps where 6.3v caps could go = lower than still lower ESR

                    ??? this stuff is a little out there for me. I'm just a lowly tech, a grunt if you well.....I think pretty soon I'm going to do what i usually do when all else fails........have a smoke and a coffee, cross my fingers, and guess.........its worked out so far

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Antec truepower psu's

                      Okay

                      The voltage has nothing -directly- to do with ESR.
                      ESR is related to the caps can size [volume] and it's grade.
                      [Grades are different because of different electrolytes, the way the foil is etched and probably some other physical 'build' differences.]
                      So:
                      A grade-X 6.3v cap will have a smaller can than a grade-X 10v cap of the same uF.
                      They use the higher voltage rated cap to get the bigger can to get lower ESR without buying better caps.
                      [breath now]

                      When -THEY- build a PSU or a mobo and they want lower ESR in a 3.3v or 5v spot the cheap way to go is use a lower grade [cheaper] 10v cap.

                      When -YOU- replace caps look up the ESR and Ripple for the installed [old] cap.
                      Get a cap with that ESR [or lower] -and- that ripple [or higher].
                      - It doesn't matter what the new caps rated voltage is as long as it's higher than the actual circuit voltage.

                      In the case of 10v caps [in those specific places I mentioned earlier] you KNOW the circuit voltage is either 3.3v or 5v [because they don't use 10v caps on +12v] so you KNOW a 6.3v cap is fine without using a meter to check the voltage.

                      You really need to browse a few data sheets looking at ESR, volts, ripple, and can size.
                      You will start to see what I mean.

                      Here are three common series of good brand caps.
                      They are all low ESR but different grades.
                      The high, medium, and low grades I marked are relative to each other.
                      [If you group the good brands of low ESR caps by grade you will actually end up with 5 to 10 grades of low ESR depending on how you group them.]

                      Panasonic FM [high]
                      http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...A0000CE108.pdf

                      Chemicon KZE [middle]
                      http://www.chemi-con.com/files/KZE.pdf

                      Panasonic FC [low]
                      http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-...BA0000CE22.pdf

                      Look at 6.3v 1200uF 8x20mm for all three. - Compare ESR and Ripple.
                      - THATS what makes their grades different and better/worse than each other.

                      Now, in each series look at all the 8x20mm caps.
                      - Notice that all the 8x20mm caps [within a series] have the same ESR/Ripple regardless of uF or volts.
                      - Notice that whatever size can you choose all in that series with that can size have the same ESR/Ripple regardless of uF or volts.
                      - uF and volts don't affect ESR or Ripple, the grade and can size do.
                      [If you go too far outside the range of about 1000uF-3300uF and 6.3v-16v you may see minor changes due to differences in the caps internal construction. Also in data sheets for crap brands the ESR/Ripple tends to jump all over the place even when the can size is the same.]

                      Now look at:
                      FC 6.3v 10mm diameter 1200uF - Ripple/ESR=1050/0.068 - can=10x16mm
                      FC 10v 10mm diameter 1200uF - Ripple/ESR=1220/0.052 - can=10x20mm
                      FM 6.3v 10mm diameter 1200uF - Ripple/ESR=1790/0.026 - can=10x16mm
                      FM 10v 10mm diameter 1200uF - Ripple/ESR=2180/0.019 - can=10x20mm

                      - We will pretend the 10v FC is the cheap low grade original cap.
                      They used it instead of the 6.3v FC for the bigger can - lower ESR - higher Ripple.
                      - But a BETTER GRADE 6.3v [the FM 6.3v] has better specs than the cheap 10v without needing the bigger can.
                      -
                      THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET ACROSS.
                      If you use a better GRADE then you don't usually need the 10v to get the better specs.
                      -
                      BUT! [You saw that coming, right?] - Crap caps have grades too.
                      If the specs on the crap brand 10v cap match FM then you will need either an FM 10v or a GRADE of good brand cap that is comparable to or better than FM.
                      That's why you have to actually check the old specs. If you don't know the ESR/Ripple you are trying to match or beat then you are flying blind. [If you can't find the specs on the old one that's where experience comes in. After a while you will get a feel for what -should- be used there based on what you usually see there.]
                      .
                      Last edited by PCBONEZ; 11-25-2009, 05:16 AM.
                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                      -
                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                      - Dr Seuss
                      -
                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                      -

                      Comment

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