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ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

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    #1

    ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

    First real post here. I was thinking about recapping this but figure I would check in here first since there's no evidence of the caps busting (yet).

    I tried to read as many threads as I could about the 2 sec then off problem so I started checking a few basics. Power supply board is FSP055-2PI02A. All the electrolytics on the board I can read are TAICON HW and HH series except for 2 CapXon KFs on the low voltage outputs.

    Symptoms are power up, power light goes from amber to green and stays on green and steady. Back light comes on, see the ACER logo, then within a second or two the backlight dims slightly and then goes off completely. Since this is a four back light system I'm guessing I'm losing one of the pairs then the other.

    The low voltage power outs to the input board from the PS board are just +5, +12, back light on/off and ground.

    +5 is right on +5.0
    +12 is between +13.5 and +14 which seems a little too high to me, but maybe without the back lights running its different than it should be under a properly loaded condition?

    What can I look at next? I'm guessing it's time to start taking the panel apart and check out the CCFLs :\ Thanks for any help ahead of time!
    Attached Files
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    #2
    Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

    Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
    All the electrolytics on the board I can read are TAICON HW and HH series except for 2 CapXon KFs on the low voltage outputs.

    +12 is between +13.5 and +14 which seems a little too high to me, but maybe without the back lights running its different than it should be under a properly loaded condition?

    I'm guessing it's time to start taking the panel apart and check out the CCFLs
    1) Bad caps can cause 2 seconds to black. Capxon doesn't have the greatest reputation here.

    2) The voltage is a bit high because the ccfls are off.

    3) If you have a spare lcd monitor, you can use it to help test the ccfls.

    4) Other possible causes of 2 seconds to black are

    a) bad ccfl wiring
    b) bad inverter transformer
    c) bad sense circuitry

    5) All the above is explained in more detail at (starting with post #13)

    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10419
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      #3
      Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

      Thanks, looks like I have a lot of reading and measuring to do

      These CCFL's aren't from this unit, but another TV that I just started taking apart (Polaroid branded ProView unit)

      I'm going to guess that this is pretty much not something you want to see on your CCFLs (taken with macro mode on a canon point and shoot with CCFLs active)

      Feel free to use this as a demo image if it's helpful for your thread. Three of the four ends of the two bulbs show quite a bit of blackening. Is this what I don't want to see when I take the panel apart?
      Attached Files

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        #4
        Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

        Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
        Three of the four ends of the two bulbs show quite a bit of blackening. Is this what I don't want to see when I take the panel apart?
        Here is a photo album showing more examples ...

        http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/y...klight%20lamp/
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          #5
          Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

          I pulled the panel apart and all the CCFLs look decent. No blackening or signs of heat or burning.

          Here is the electrolytic cap inventory:
          w x l
          (2) 10mm x 16mm TAICON 680uF 25v 105C HH series - C24, C261
          (2) 10mm x 16mm TAICON 1000uF 10v 105C HW series - C244, C241
          (1) 18mm x 40mm TAICON 150uF 400v 105C AS series - C114
          (1) 5mm x 12 mm TAICON 22uF 50v 105C HW series - C123
          (1) 8mm x 12mm CapXon 220uF 25v 105C KF(?) series - C263
          (1) 8mm x 12mm CapXon 470uF 10v 105C KF series - C242

          Next on my list is to watch the backlight on/off line coming from the control board. Do I measure the voltage there between the on/off pins on the interconnect or between the on pin and ground?

          After that it'll be time to poke around with the transformers I guess.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

            Backlight on and ground,when the lights are on, should be roughly between 3-4 volts DC

            Comment

              #7
              Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

              Thanks!

              Comment

                #8
                Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
                Do I measure the voltage there between the on/off pins on the interconnect or between the on pin and ground?

                After that it'll be time to poke around with the transformers I guess.
                Not sure I understand your question, but I would measure between the on/off connector pin and ground.

                The secondary transformers are easy enough to test. Maybe do that first and make sure they are within 3% of each other.
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                  #9
                  Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                  Oh I didn't see that before. The power supply has an 8 pin conector to the control board

                  +12 | +12
                  Gnd | Gnd
                  +5 | +5
                  ADJ | ON/OFF

                  I thought on and off were separate pins. I didn't see the adj label. My bad.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                    I think I understand the secondary test. In this case it looks like I have two transformers sharing a common core. If that's the case, something looks not right. I tested all pins to all other pins but omitted ∞ ohm readings for brevity.

                    T1 - tested in circuit with ccfls disconnected.
                    a primary coil - 1.5 ohm
                    a secondary coil - 994 ohm

                    b primary coil - 1.5 ohm
                    b secondary coil - 1.766 MegaOhm

                    T1 part ID:
                    SPI 8TC00332
                    0719 1 FC GP

                    looks like lcdparts has them and a picture of it found from another thread here:

                    http://lcdparts.net/TransformerDetai...ProductID=2796

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                      Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
                      T1 - tested in circuit with ccfls disconnected.
                      a primary coil - 1.5 ohm
                      a secondary coil - 994 ohm

                      b primary coil - 1.5 ohm
                      b secondary coil - 1.766 MegaOhm
                      Transformer "b" is bad. It should be around 1000 ohms.
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                        #12
                        Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                        Search for 8TC00332 on ebay.com.

                        There is one listed for $12. IMHO, it is worth the $12 + shipping to fix a 22 inch lcd.
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                          #13
                          Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                          Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
                          (2) 10mm x 16mm TAICON 680uF 25v 105C HH series - C24, C261
                          (2) 10mm x 16mm TAICON 1000uF 10v 105C HW series - C244, C241
                          (1) 18mm x 40mm TAICON 150uF 400v 105C AS series - C114
                          (1) 5mm x 12 mm TAICON 22uF 50v 105C HW series - C123
                          (1) 8mm x 12mm CapXon 220uF 25v 105C KF(?) series - C263
                          (1) 8mm x 12mm CapXon 470uF 10v 105C KF series - C242
                          Good job listing the caps. Will make it easy to look up suitable replacements. Note that I'm aware of other suitable series, but I will list those that precisely match the diameter.

                          1) HH - Nichicon HV
                          2) HW - Nichicon HE
                          3) Primary - United ChemiCon KXG
                          4) HW - Nichicon HE
                          5) Capxon KF - Nichicon HD
                          6) Capxon KF - Nichicon HD

                          Everything is in stock.

                          Let's have a look at your logic board as well... Are there only solid polymer caps on there? If there are some electrolytics, you have to replace them, or at least those with a high enough value.
                          "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                          -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                            Ordered one up!

                            I did some reading here on TAICON/NichiCon joint venture and apparently there are mixed feelings on them due to the defective electrolytics that went into the Dell/Apple fiasco. I guess next on the list is reading data sheets to find replacements for those TAICON and CapXon caps.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                              Nichicon capacitors are just as reliable as any other quality manufacturer out there. The defective electrolyte only affected Ultra-Low ESR Nichicon HM and HN series with a datecode of 2000 to 2006 or 2005 I am not clear.

                              I should know, I have a whole bag of like 40 6.3 2200 HM I ordered from Mouser recently.

                              Good luck finding something like Nichicon HV in stock somewhere that will precisely match your Taicon HH.
                              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                              Comment

                                #16
                                Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                                Ah ok, I was just worried these caps were from that same series.

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                                  Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
                                  T1 - tested in circuit with ccfls disconnected.
                                  a primary coil - 1.5 ohm
                                  a secondary coil - 994 ohm

                                  b primary coil - 1.5 ohm
                                  b secondary coil - 1.766 MegaOhm

                                  T1 part ID:
                                  SPI 8TC00332
                                  0719 1 FC GP

                                  looks like lcdparts has them and a picture of it found from another thread here:

                                  http://lcdparts.net/TransformerDetai...ProductID=2796
                                  Yes, it is the right part. I had the same problem with Fujitsu - mentioned thread.
                                  Good luck!

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                                    New transformer arrived yesterday, soldered it in and it fired right up. Awesome!

                                    What are your thoughts on the white silicone/glue that was over the transformer solder joints? Just in case to prevent arcing to something? Am I safe to not replace that or would it be a good idea to cover the terminals with something?

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                                      Originally posted by BarrelRoll View Post
                                      New transformer arrived yesterday, soldered it in and it fired right up. Awesome!
                                      Was the transformer from ebay?

                                      What are your thoughts on the white silicone/glue that was over the transformer solder joints?
                                      My uneducated guess. I believe it is to hold part in place during assembly because it is a "heavy" component.

                                      Most inverter transformers I have personally seen have no glue on them at all.
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                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        Re: ACER X221W / XW221 2 sec and off

                                        No, while that transformer was $12, it was located in Hong Kong. I ended up getting it from LCDparts/MoniServ for $25 shipped.

                                        Cool, I thought it might be for assembly reasons, thanks again everyone!

                                        Comment

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